I am pretty much assuming worst case he is gone Jan, but I still think bottom half is incredibly unlikely regardless.
Youâre right Bavin, but for me itâs not just about getting the top four this season. Itâs about improving the current crop of young players we have, I feel like we have the foundations for a really strong team if we can the right person in. Which is why personally I want Poch, because we saw what he did with that group of young Tottenham players.
We got our GK position sorted, we seem to have a real talent in Saliba, Holding has potential, Tierney is already top quality and Bellerin could improve, that could potentially be a solid back four for us, then we have Willock, Saka, Reis and Smith-Rowe, all of which have the potential to help form a top quality midfield for us, then thereâs Martinelli, Pepe and Nketiah who all have the potential to be world class especially Martinelli and Pepe. If we can get top class manager in to try and salvage whatâs left of this season and maybe get top four or try and win the EL, whilst improving these youngsters then Iâm sure next season we will be a completely different team. But it has to be now next summer will be to late.
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Very true, but some managers do hit the ground running and the new manager bounce could happen to us as well which would allow us to build on momentum.
At the end of the day, things are going very badly for Emery if you ask me. Granted we arenât losing every game but weâre coming close.
Iâd not be opposed to Ljungberg managing for a few weeks/months while we figure out what manager we want.
Iâm not convinced Arteta would be the right move though, at all.
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Even if Allegri doesnât get us up to speed immediately there are more advantages in hiring him now than waiting for the summer or even another couple of weeks. First of all he seems like one of the better, known to us, options out there. Stepping in now gives him the advantage of getting to know the squad better and go into the summer with a headstart for potential targets and things like that. Iâd also have a lot more confidence in our EL chances with Allegri in charge. Possession based football is a lot harder, and takes more time, to install than what Allegri does I think. Therefore Allegri can make a impact quicker than Guardiola could. Champions League via the League is probably out of Arsenalâs reach, but the sooner a new manager can build new foundations the better. Who knows maybe Chelsea or Leicester implodes and Arsenal can take advantage of that.
Having said all that I think he, and Pochettino, are waiting for potential openings at Manchester United, Bayern or PSG and step in there.
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Of course, thereâs always the chance of a new manager bounce. But we are in precarious times if this is what we are relying on.
I guess my point was more around the general fact that Arsenal have been mismanaged at an executive level for much longer than the time Emery has been manager, and that these underlying issues wont dissipate purely upon sacking Unai, and if anything may actually get worse.
I am firmly in favour of replacing Emery, I just doubt our ability to execute the firing and hiring properly.
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Yeah as I said to Cristo, my post was referring more to the other issues at the club rather than trying to say we shouldnât sack Emery because another manager might still miss Top 4.
I personally think we have to accept missing Top 4 again this season and go from there.
It also wasnât a comparison directly between Pep, Allegri or anyone else, just used Pep as an example of a manager who implements a clear system and tactics and that it can take time regardless of how good the manager is. Itâs not specific to Pep, he is just a good recent example.
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Yeah this waiting till summer is okay providing we are already negotiating behind the scenes with our potential targets.
More likely we might have a bit of a short list but been put away in a draw. Tbh things look dreadful because of how where run.
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But what are these other issues? I personally think the right manager is the most important appointment a club can make for the total direction of a club. To their credit I think Arsenal have had a very solid transfer summer. There are making an attempt to get the academy going. The future will have to show if Mertesacker and the other guy are the right people for that. The only issue I think right know is their unjustified confidence in Emery still.
They are literally discussed in the post you quoted.
Things such as transfer market failings and the overall ethos of the club over a sustained period.
Yes I agree a manager is important. Why create assertions that I havenât made?
As if Iâd be saying a manager isnât important and if you read the post thoroughly then youâd be able to tell that.
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I agree with Bavin that we have been horribly miss managed at the executive level, and that our problems go way deeper than Emery. However on the footballing side of things, I feel like next year would be too late. That means the next manager would have to learn the league if we recruit outside of the UK, learn the team and then identify what weaknesses we have in the squad, meaning we could potentially be missing champions League football for a 5th season as the new manager gets to grips with his squad! By which time we might lose more key players and more money which would allow us to replace or add better players, and thus continue our spiral downwards.
Weâve been out of the CL for 3 years now and uncompetitive in the league since 2007/8 itâs we really donât have the luxury of wasting more time. A top manager now, could improve the players we have, would get invaluable knowledge of the league and our current crop of players and have replacements and additions ready for next summerâs transfer window.
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The red line in that post is the mentality of the players/at the club? Bottling on moments that mattered. That is something which, in my opinion, a manager is responsible for. He is the one working with them on a day-to-day bases to install certain things. Be it on the pitch or outside of that. I donât think that is something that executives can deal with.
Liverpool has been a nothing club for several years. They appoint (got lucky with) Klopp and they become one of the best, if not the current best, sides in football.
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Klopp appointment came about because of a boardroom change of policy.
They went down the statesman one with Roy. Non starter.
Legend one with Dalglish. Okayish.
Rookie and money ball with Rodgers. Got so far but weâre forced to take the extra step. Klopp as proven and giving full responsibility and money. Result success.
An actual change of policy or they took advantage of him being available and was actually willing to join them ;)?
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I agree, a manager is hugely responsible for that particularly in the individual moments. But the club is also far bigger than a manager in the modern environment, thatâs just pure reality.
A manager is an important part of a pretty big puzzle.
With us, we have a growing year-on-year history of mediocrity and minimal success. We have consistently become also-rans.
Having a great manager is one thing, having the stability, resources etc is another. And generally, you need to handle the stability/resources thing to keep on attracting the top class of manager.
I donât want to get into making arbitrary comparisons with other sides, but bear in mind Liverpool also bought well and did well administratively to get Klopp, thatâs all part of it though, thatâs the game and they made the moves and were in a position to do so.
We can sit here and call others lucky, or we can get to work on handling our shit and having our own dominance, since we have all of the foundations.
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Not just that. Thereâs a world of difference afforded Klopp under FSG and what Rodgers had.
Klopp wouldnât have Balottelli foistered on him for a replacement to Suarez would he.
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Or Rodgers was just really shit at buying and Klopp had other contacts/network which Liverpool took advantage off?
@Bavin Klopp stepped in october 2015. The summer of 2015 Liverpool still bought shit like Benteke and Ings. Fair enough theyâve also had some good finds coming in like Firmino and, arguably, Joe Gomez in that same summer. However Liverpool didnât do that well off the field to be such an attractive destination for Klopp at the time.
What my point is, is that the right manager will be the catalyst to get the club out of the mess they are in.
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Liverpool did well by being a big club and still kinda relevant (a bit like us), then they hired a top manager and backed him properly.
Again, not wanting to make arbitrary comparisons, but it is as much about timing, doing things and taking advantage of what you have. Same in professional football as it is in everything else.
We hired an average manager and have mostly backed him so canât fault us for that, but thatâs 2 years out of 15 which is the overarching point.
I donât disagree that Klopp would transform us, but initially I was talking about this season and then more generally over a longer period of time.
I think even Klopp would find it tough to get 18 wins out of 25, but I donât think heâd struggle to turn the club around over 3-4 years of full backing. But these are 2 different scenarios. And of course, part of changing us over 3-4 years would be erasing some of the shitty ethos around the place, so it goes hand in hand with what I am talking about.
The real question is, who are we going to bring in and how will we do it?
No one doubts the value of a great manager, but this club, in the real world, actually doing it, will it happen? And if not, what do you think the reason will be?
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Money. Liverpool have the allure of their history. We have that too, but not to the same degree. Besides Klopp other managers would probably be less attracted to that anyway. The clubs aforementioned have more resources. That is why I think Allegri will not be attainable for us. Arsenal probably has to find a prospect as a manager who is underway to the top five in Europe and try to grow together with that said manager. But at the end of the day I think the most importance has the financial package we can offer both in terms of salary and possiblities on the market etc That is why Champions League qualification is of such importance even though we probably donât have a geniune chance of winning it (@Stroller).
Part of this demise started by a general apathetic approach to the CL.
We have had genuine reason to invest and produce far better than we did.
Spurs have had two adventures more than weâve had over a decade.
Again thats on your boards outlook though and acceptance of bar settings.
What does âdoing well administrativelyâ mean, what does that consist of with regards to managerial appointments?