First image is part of his broader agenda with a view to contesting GE 2024
Second image is his response to rumoured Corporation tax increases as part of the post covid economic recovery being addressed in the next budget.
Both position are compatible with each other and he’s right, Corporation tax increases now would be extremely regressive at time when small business have been hit hardest. Recovery should be driven by growth
If you want to add more coffers to the treasury don’t pursue stupid vanity schemes like Eat out to help Out.
Corporation tax is basically at an historical low and isn’t even comparable to other major economies really, at all. That’s needed addressing for at least a decade now, and needs to be higher than it is.
He’s breaking pledges left eight and centre. Back in 2020 he’s talking a big game about how there needs to be democracy and transparency in the selection of candidates and now look at what is happening in Liverpool at the moment.
He pledged to be a unity candidate and thats been bollocks. He’s not healed the division he’s fanned the flames, at a time when it couldn’t be less needed.
The guy sways whichever way seems most expedient in the moment. Maybe thats what people want.
I’ll still be delighted if he wins an election because it means no more Tories for five years. I’ll vote for his party.
But I don’t think he’s trustworthy or principled really, I just think the Tories are even less so and a much worse political party with worse aims.
No it isn’t. Reducing corporation tax encourages companies to not spend departmental budgets, rather than spending it, on company assets to increase the asset value of the company. The latter fuels economic growth. Having companies take profits out of the business does the opposite
A low corporation is merely lazy tax avoidance
Meanwhile they’re proposing taxing meat so poor people have a lesser standard of nutrional intake. Does that help grow the economy post covid?
The core principle is “economic justice” which doesn’t necessarily mean a corp tax increase at a time when we’ve been hit hardest. The term is deliberately vague
You want your leadership to be driven by pragmatism not dogmatism
Yeah, so people can defend the lack of principles when he doesn’t do what he said.
That part was deliberately vague, I’m focusing on the part that was a specific pledge. Yet I get the sense that you think I’m the one looking at this in the wrong way lol
Your arguments about not increasing corporation tax sounds a lot like what I’ve heard repeatedly over the last ten years every time someone suggests that corporation tax being lower than ever before and much lower than other advanced economies is something we should change.
Probably better off here, they’re winning now. Now they’re levelled it, so I think we’re somehow going out on away goals. There’s always the history threads. Good reason former player threads are popping up more.
What fuels economic growth is capital investment and the motivation behind investment is profit ultimately. Corporation tax is a tax on taxable profits
What people rarely consider when having discussions about Corp tax is that economic growth relies on people injecting capital into their business and wider economy, and through the course of operation that business failing at some point, this is already factored into broader nationwide growth projections when the environment is low tax.
The issue with Corp tax increases is that you kill a business as an idea before you’ve even given it the chance to fail or succeed in reality. People make financial projections on their ventures before they start and if a return on their initial investment isn’t part of the calculation down the line why waste capital in the first place?
It’s important to understand that most businesses are SME and they rely the most on a low rate of Corp tax in order grow.
Corporation tax is basically at an historical low and isn’t even comparable to other major economies really, at all.
These are not valid reasons to increase the level of Corp Tax.
A lower rate gives the UK a competitive advantage when it comes to attracting high levels of capital investment, that means more growth. The argument for lower levels tax generally are even more important and valid as we leave the EU
I run my own companies and I’ll tell you now reducing corporation tax will only reduce economic growth if it offsets foreigh investment.
If corporation tax goes up I’m not stopping doing business. I’m simply spending more on growing the business to offset corporation tax loss. Although many of these things might be my personal spending, which is pretending to be business spending.
On the otherhand, I’d reduce corporate tax on very small companies that have low levels of profit. So sure have a lower tax rate for SMEs, I don’t have a problem with that
Are you ideologically opposed to increasing corporation tax? Like, has there been any point in the past ten years when you would have advocated for it? Leaving aside the pandemic, do you just generally think that we need corporation tax rates that are historically low and vastly lower than other advanced economies?
Even leaving that aside and returning to Starmer and the Labour Party, I could bring myself round to supporting this if I believed that economic justice was his guiding principle like he said it was, or if I believed that he’d instead advance a corporation tax that focused on the large corporations that continued to profit during the pandemic instead of potentially hitting small businesses as they start to recover. But its blatantly not gonna happen because this move isn’t really about supporting small businesses through a recovery period, its about showing that he is an ally of big business.
I cited two other examples, which I think are more significant than this one were discussing, that demonstrate well enough how it started vs how its going with his leadership.
I’m not asking for Corbyn student activism politics or whatever, I’m happy to accept a Labour leader who doesn’t share my exact politics, but his performance and Labour’s hasn’t been good enough. You have the likes of Hugo Rifkind calling it out in the Times, this isn’t just the bleating of dissatisfied hard leftists.
This is all well and good but the point of low rate of corporation tax is to increase the level of available profit at the end of each financial year. The discussion doesn’t apply to you if you’re not seeking profit.
Profit is important for paying shareholders, maintaining capital and building reserves. The money you pay to yourself personally via a company is subject to a higher level of taxation because of NIC and income tax.
I wouldn’t say that I am I but I loyal to ideas that work. To me the economic and moral argument is sound and rational.
There’s been no point over the last 10 years where I would advocate for a higher level of Corp tax, we already have evidence that the tax receipts in the UK increased during 2010s as the level of corp tax went down.
I think it should remain low (low to mid teens) in order to give the UK a competitive advantage when it comes to attracting foreign investment into the country and domestically it allows the free market principles to drive growth.
On Labour, I think your critique is valid. Generally, I think Keir wants to stay unbound to certain positions in the early part of his leadership. He can get focused on certain issues closer to 2024 where he’ll be better able to draw contrast and when his performance as leader will start to meaningfully affect vote share.
Dissenters had their chance with JC, they need to sit down and give Keir the benefit of any doubt
Nuh uh, the same courtesy was never extended when the positions were reversed. He doesn’t get uncritical support, that seems like a mad position to advocate.
Maybe it is but we know the previous platform wasn’t effective in delivering power, which is what the game is all about. It just isn’t smart to create conflict when you’re a minority faction in the opposition really
Issue with a lot of Labour supporters is that Keir is applying necessary corrections to areas of the Party which previously affected electability, he has a mandate from members to do this.
I’ve seen it across the spectrum, the main purpose of being vocally critical at this stage is to highlight ideological contrast to your support base rather than affecting policy. Keir has been trending in the right direction so far
This would make sense if Starmer was behaving in a remotely conciliatory way to the people you are claiming should uncritically support him. That seems like madness to me. You can’t even claim its this small faction causing problems when it’s more than mutual. Again, look at Liverpool
Again, Liverpool. Another example of his duplicity, saying one thing in 2020 about local elections and local members deciding candidates, and now in Liverpool the party are doing the literal, exact opposite of this.
He claimed to be a candidate of unity, that was a central part of his pitch after the shit years we’ve had of infighting, and he is demonstrably.not sticking to that at all, his behaviour isn’t remotely conciliatory.
I was quite positive about him at the start and offered close to full support because he hadn’t yet gone back on the things that he said when trying to get elected leader, some of those things convinced me he’d be a good leader, cos I was willing to believe he had some principles and meant the things he said.
But at the end of the day, the key thing is that the people you are calling dissidents and telling to sit down and be quiet are the boots on the ground for Labour, many of these people make up the people who go out there and put in the hard work when it’s time to try and get Labournin ahead of the Tories. By and large, these people will be voting Labour because that’s generally the way to prevent the Tories getting in. Which you absolutely cannot say for many Labour figures at the last two elections when they didn’t like the party leader.
Starmer will basically have their vote, and if he isn’t a total cunt, they’ll be out there doing their damn best to make him Prime Minister by canvassing during any election too. So I think its a pisstake to expect them to just stfu for the next four years and make no efforts to hold him to some of the pledges he made to secure the mandate you talk about. This shouldn’t be a one way street.
The sooner labour realise that even peak 1997 Tony Blair isn’t beating the current Tories with the resources and apparatus at their disposal, the better.
Any moron with a blue rosette is winning UK elections.
The minute they get real with that, they can try to figure out how to come back.
Appeasing populist morons with shit like this isn’t the answer. Ask Gordon brown.
Obviously I no longer support the hard left intake into Labour, but you are right about this 100%. The Centrist / Blairite contingent within Labour are duplicitous, anti democratic and willing to do anything to destroy the left. They did this back when I joined and was active and they continue to do it now. Many on the left were far too naïve and trusting, seeing him as a unity candidate. That was never going to be the case.
