Pushing for a vote of no-confidence because she called out anti-Semitism in the party is extrodinary
The thing is quite a lot of these have no evidence behind them and when called no apology given. Nowadays anti semitism is used as a political tool which only servered to dilute it. Normall people get tired of hearing this which shows the political class are out of touch with everyday people
âNormal peopleâ are tired of hearing about anti-semitism? I consider normal and have always voted Labour, currently I wouldnât vote for them no matter the circumstances. There is quite clearly a serious problem with some elements of the left, which isnât helped by comments like yours
Not taking sides either way, but theyâd argue that theyâre trying to deselect her because she is undermining a party leader that they believe in and want to see succeed.
Whatever we think, a lot of people are of the belief that if Corbyn is ousted, weâll end up with a quasi-Blairite leader who wonât genuinely look after them but cause theyâll be neo-liberal in flavour. And for many of the most disadvantaged, theyd be absolutely right.
To be clear, I support Corbynâs politics, in a general sense. Not Jeremy Corbyn as a figure, Iâm now way passed that point. Aside from anything else, heâs grossly incompetent and not particularly liked outside certain circles. But what I do share with many, is the fear that this is our one opportunity for âproper left wing politicsâ, and that if we donât get behind it somewhat weâll have lost the one opportunity our generation has to try and get power with such politics leading the party.
Which is why Iâm so conflicted. I donât doubt theres a problem with antisemitism and that more should have been done. But before anyone was even discussing that issue, the same voices who are very vocal now were trying to wreck him anyway because politically they arenât aligned. Simply for his stance on Palestine, there are people who simoly will not tolerate him. For his views on taxation, foreign affairs generally and other things, many refuse to tolerate him. Before anything about antisemitism was raised, the smears were constant from the moment he won. For every case of genuine antisemitism that gets highlighted, there are cases of people being smeared for bullshit fucking reasons, like the JK Rowling one I posted previously in this thread. When Angela Eagle challenged his leadership a window in her building was smashed and the media across the board painted this as being Corbynistas using intimidation tactics, the truth of the matter is that that building is shared by various people, and there was zero evidence that the smashing of the window had anything to do with her or Corbyn supporters, or was remotely politically motivated. That was a smear, pure and simple. There have been so many that I literally recall them all, itâd be impossible. Kuenssberg totally misrepresenting his position on shoot to kill, for our supposedly.neutral stare broadcaster, is another.
With all this going on, itâs no wonder that so many people refuse to believe a bad word said about him and dismiss anything bad about him out of hand. The concerted efforts to oust him and smear him and his supporters from day one have been huge, so now many people dismiss everything as being a smear, and this behaviour has contributed to the cult of personality that surrounds him.
As always its a question of probability. The odds of this MPâs constituency being on mass anti-Semitic is virtually zero. The odds that they just hate her as an MP, probably extremely high. They honestly need to hurry up and form a new party so this can finally end.
SDP all over again, eh?
Again if you hear the same old thing with no evidence then start questioning its validity. The general public are not stupid regardless what the outrage mob thinks
Youâve got an MP that wonât even rule out not leaving the party, so itâs no surprise that some members donât want her to represent it. I find it interesting that people want to believe itâs because sheâs spoken out about antisemitism, rather than because sheâs spoken out about Labour.
But still, this is 3 or 4 members showing discontent in one constituency. The fact itâs such a big story is laughable, and the fact that Tom Watson feels the need to intervene is even more so.
Exactly.
You have to let this party die now. Itâs time.
Tom Watson suspending an entire CLP, and by extension all the local branches, on grounds of anti-Semitism is an utter disgrace, and Iâm saddened so many lefty commentators are too weak to call it out. I wonder how many of members included in this number are Jewish or BAME. Probably a fair few. And for Berger to use her Jewishness as a means of avoiding party democracy is shameful and pathetic.
Where does he ever mention anti-Semitism? He indicated bullying as the grounds?
The motion itself is incredible thin to trigger a vote but and there no mention of anything related to her beliefs.
I havenât followed this all that closely, but I remember when the story broke, everyone from left to right was talking about the vote as anti-Semitic, I even turned off LBC when they did an entire show on it. Itâs obvious to me at least what Watson means by bullying.
Also, incredible or not, a no confidence vote in an MP is perfectly allowable.
This happened because Labour and anti-Semitism has been a leading story in the last few years. Of course when a prominent labour Jewish MP and critic of JC is subject to a vote of confidence the anti-Semitism angle is going to be explored by the media
Why would you treat that angle as definitive though, when itâs clear the Wavertree CLP triggered the motion solely on the basis of Bergerâs (lack of) support of the party leader?
Sure a confidence vote is allowed, no ever disputed that, question is whether that vote is justified on the basis of Bergerâs recent performance as MP - which it clearly isnât hence the bullying claims, which is really the focus of this discussion and not anti-Semitism, even Shadow Chancellor has adopted this position
Dude she came out and said she was thinking of forming a new party.
And its not just the media âexploringâ an angle. This is demonstrable smear after smear. Chuka Umunna has called it anti-Semitic on Twitter, Wes Streeting another, and Chris Leslie and Jess Phillips retweeting claims that the no vote of confidence was racist.
Whatâs more likely, that an entire CLP pass a racist motion out of nowhere because they are fucking mental, or that they are disgusted in her desire to form a new party? That there is any other narrative than this obvious one is IMO evidence of further smear.
Where? If youâre referring to the interview on Preston, she did not indicate anything close to what youâve suggested above
She might as well have said yes. She was asked straight up 3 times will you break away and form a new party, and she didnât even bother with a no or hopefully not. Clear inference - either she does want to leave or she doesnât but is pretending she is, to put JC under pressure, which is exactly what the CLP voted no confidence in her for.
Also worth noting that Hoey, Ryan and Leslie have all had no confidence votes against them and none of them are Jewish. And as I suspected, itâs coming out now on Twitter that the two people who put forward the motion of no confidence were Jewish and the Wavertree secretary is Jewish. So Watson is suspending Jews for antisemitism. The fucking nerve of it.
Jewish people can be anti-Semitic and should be punished for it. I donât think the fact people who tabled a motion of no confidence are themselves Jewish can be used as a bulwark against Antisemitism. Thatâs basically the same as someone saying âdude I canât be racist, look at all these Asian friends I have.â
Isnât it more akin to, youâre saying Iâm racist to black people for criticising a black person when I am in fact I am a black person and disaprove of this other black persons actions on political lines? Is that what racism is now in 2019? Anti-Semitism and racism is daring to criticise someone of a certain ethnic or religious persuasion for the valid mistakes they make. Because GTFO with that
And I donât actually want Corbyn in power, I think heâll create an inefficient government that will wreck the economy. But debate the politics and stop crying to daddy over fake anti-semitism when in actual fact itâs the powers that be in the Labour Party, very angry that Ed Milliband made it far more democratic, too democratic for the powers that be.
Not remotely the same. Those tabling the motion didnât have Jewish friends, they were actual Jews. And by the way, having lots of Asian friends, though by no means a guarantee, probably does indicate that such a person is inclined against racism.
Anyway point still stands. A non Jew has basically banned maybe 1000 people, maybe more, of antisemitism. In Liverpool with its tradition of anti racism. Where those tabling the motion were it would seem Jewish. With no evidence.