The Labour Party


#424

That’s very much the case I’m not doubting that, because it is happening under one at this moment. But it’s a very regressive left wing idea in its conception


#425

You wont get any argument from me about extreme left ideology. I hold it as much contempt as I do far right ideology.

My point was that this wasn’t a reason to not vote Labour.


#426

The bit about girls with green hair :slight_smile:


#427

It’s strange that traditional left leaning ideas are being called right wing now. I’m centre left I hold some conservative views when it comes to economics but I also have some socialist ideals. But nowadays that’s very right wing because I don’t tow the line of “if you are not a straight white male you are a victim”


#428

Sorry to hear your heart-breaking story. I’ll take you at your word, as I would most people relaying their experiences.

Of course you can expect nothing from JC on this matter; nor could you from the Tories.

It’s a very complex and difficult problem, which I think broadly, with considerable room for error, we get right.

When my mother and father divorced my father would have lost a court case. He is now reputed to be a wife-beater. Technically it’s true as I witnessed him hitting my mother. What isn’t well known is that my mother used to slap my father often and had a very long affair. Whose right? One could make a genuine case that my mother deserved it. The problem with all this stuff is how subjective and messy it all is. But on balance I favour siding with the woman (where evidence lacks) on the basis that I have never seen a truly terrible mother, but I have seen countless terrible fathers. I could be wrong on that. Either way, I don’t know what the solution is. The courts do have to favour someone, and for what it’s worth, a somewhat right-wing notion actually, I think women are women, biologically speaking, precisely to raise children.

Do you not as someone who has been homeless feel a greater connection to the left?


#429

If he did it in self-defence, yeah. But if it was a cause she had hit him in the past on seperate occasions, or because she had had an affair, really?!


#430

Of course he shouldn’t have done it. He might have accidentally really hurt her. That’s the only reason I would retreat from my statement, the unlikely outcome where it kills her or something. But given the hit didn’t do that, and didn’t particularly hurt her, in that scenario alone I would say a hit is preferable to finding out your wife has been sleeping with someone else for 3-4 years and that you were going to lose your family as an outcome. They were both violent acts. This is actually a very important point.

Anyway take what I said more symbolically than literally.


#431

Sleeping with someone else for several years is not a violent act. It is a vile, despicable thing to do but you’re stretching massively to call it violent to try and bolster your point that the two are equivalent acts, or what your mum did was worse.

But maybe like your initial statement I should be taking that more symbolically than literally :thinking:


#432

Well presumably you agree that there’s a thing called psychological violence? It probably hurts more to be deceived for 3-4 years. The hurt probably lasts a lifetime rather than a day or whatever a hard slap might do. And I’m not calling them equivalent, I’m saying the cheating was worse.

My only concern in what I have said is the potential for a hard slap to seriously hurt someone, unlikely, but possible, which is why I retreated and asked you to view it symbolically.


#433

I said “or what your mum did was worse”, I got your point. I disagree, but I understood what you were saying.

I think psychological violence is a distinctly different thing, and should be labelled as such. Which you have done now but didn’t initially.

And I think initially its probably helpful for you to say that him hitting her didn’t hurt her at all in the first place if you’re going to raise any objection to me questioning you for saying that there’s a genuine case that she deserved it.

And saying that a woman deserves to be hit for cheating on someone is a pretty despicable thing to say, but it’s probably redundant me saying that, because you probably can already tell I think that and it’s also redundant because on some level you think there’s some justification for him doing that.

And yeah, despite you saying it is clearly wrong for a man to hit a woman, when you say there’s a “genuine case that your mother deserved it”, I’m taking that as you saying it was justified on some level, which I can’t get on board with tbh.


#434

These debates are quite easily won though:

“Do you think steroids drastically improve performance?”
“Yes.”
“Did you know men produce Testosterone, an anabolic steroid in effect, in far greater quantities than women?” “Oh right”

Then there’s things like males having greater bone and tendon density and women’s hip structure being a less effective biomechanics. But I do wonder if she’s making a disingenuous argument anyway


#435

They aren’t though, it sounds simple when you make those points until you’re sitting across from a person who is deliberately being obtuse. Its infuriating.


#436

If someone wants to believe that shit there is nothing you can do. It’s like a flat earther. Don’t waste any time shouting into the void. :slight_smile:


#437

I agree, but the problem is that these people are a greater population than you think at this point. And it’s rising.


#438

Flat earthers too. They can’t hurt me. Their thoughts make little difference to my daily life.


#439

Maybe I’ll worry (I won’t) when I encounter one, hasn’t happened yet. Not really buying that any significant number think that kind of thing.


#440

My point isn’t just that they actually think it though, it’s sometimes that they act so shocked and offended when you say something that isn’t harmful and they know is true.


#441

dpt3ei0xceuz

So how do you explain this then? You’re clearly not ready to handle the truth :santi:


#442

I explain it thusly

:arteta:

:poldi:

:xhaka:


#443

I recommend backing out of this debate before I eviscerate you with all of my evidence.

I’ll just ask you, why is no one ever allowed to go too far north in the Arctic?
:wenger: