The Environment

I’m in Hamilton, just over an hour south of Auckland.

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That is a huge expenditure to have on something that didn’t have even 50% of the throughput it was deemed to have had.

I like how their competitors just came from behind and overtook them for cost per watt.
Reduced it to 10% from where they started.

Attenborough speaks. Time to listen.

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2 minute video and he only mentioned one actual practical climate change thing. People listen to him though because he made a living talking about animals lol

Like I’ve said, there is plenty going on in the climate space and most of these celebs act like legitimately nothing is being done, which is just not accurate.

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I personally don’t see it as right v left in this regard because I think the left have no idea about climate change and neither do the right.

It’s not a political issue unless taking care of things you care about is something you consider to be optional.

I’d love to know if there are many countries where the climate change deniers are the people on the left wing and those talking about the threat to our environment are on the right. Doesn’t tend to feel like it’s ever that way round to me.

Still waiting.

It’s an unfair question tho because of course there is none

It’s not an unfair question, but it isnt a very good one.

I was the one who said neither side really has any idea. Whereas you are the one trying to make it a right v left discussion.

If you want to talk right v left politics on climate change then I’m not really that keen.

If you want to talk about the substantial body of climate change legislation and management mechanisms in place for climate and climate related issues, then I’d be more game.

I feel like I gave you more than enough tangible examples in my post above for you to not have to hang on so hard to one line of your response lol

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Well you did say this to help prompt the question from Robin, so it’s not exactly unreasonable that she might think that you were willing to engage with her on the climate through the prism of left vs right, and therefore be hopeful that you’d answer her question. Because engaging with her on the environment through the prism of left vs right is what it looks like you are doing in the quoted part above.

Except that I was talking quite specifically about things actually going on in the climate space generally and not right v left and then Robin responded to my post with this:

To which I basically said it’s not a right v left thing. All of my questions about what time frame we should be aiming for were ignored and it becomes “who is worse than Trump for the environment” despite the fact I was discussing carbon targets, international agreements and even the CFPs.

So yeah, if you read things in the form of small snippets of quotes, then your mind may think one way but that’s why we read the whole conversation.

The basic point is that Robin is holding onto one small question while ignoring other actually important parts of the discussion.

Or perhaps not everyone agrees with what you think is important, or wants to discuss the precise things you do. Conversations and debates are a two way thing, the terms aren’t solely dictated by you.

I did actually did read the whole conversation, for what it’s worth. I highlighted that specific part as it very much looked like you engaging in the left vs right dichotomy (because that’s exactly what you were doing in that moment), and I was saying that that engagement might be why it’s not entirely clear to everyone that you aren’t interested in discussing that particular aspect. I’m not just reading snippets, I didn’t highlight all of the parts that didn’t look like you engaging in the left vs right thing, because it wouldn’t be of any use to explaining why I think Robin might have hoped for an answer from you. Which I think would have been pretty evident, but maybe not.

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I can dictate terms of a debate just fine lol that’s a made up rule.

This was my initial post:

1/3 of the next response was about governments to which I’ve consistently said that both sides have no idea.

In terms of ‘engaging’, you’re right, I did engage, by asking for some evidence as to why one side is better than the other in terms of CC action. To which I received a response of “well, who is worse than Bolsanaro”. It’s not really a wholesome answer that supports the previous worries of incoming right-wing governments.

This is in addition to no answer to my question about what the ideal speed of change and response to climate issues is required. “Left v Right”, “ideal speed of change required”, they’re mostly just blanket terms very rarely backed up by anything else tangible, as we have seen in this case.

Do you think people flying thousands of miles to conventions on very specific environmental issues use blanket terms as their main source of information? lol

My point is really that it’s not as big a factor as many people may think, and on top of that, my general feeling, based on a pretty decent knowledge base, is that political discourse is far more simplistic than much of what is going on in this space, so that’s why I take a pretty cold view to the idea of party politics being the proverbial saviour.

I’ve provided more than enough actual material for discussion, and I’ve had more questions not answered. This has been a poor analysis on your part imo lol

This has been a boring analysis on your part imo lol

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Like, I should just mind my own business, I don’t even care and I’m making you type words. Leave you two to it.

I have zero interest in forum ‘back and forths’ that (as far as I’m concerned) boil down to ‘he said she said’ tussles over semantics, so I’ll quite happily leave Bavin to it having skim read said back and forth :laughing:

Since I want this thread to be filled with fun stuff, here’s a short essay I wrote a couple of years ago about water management in New Zealand and how our current legislation fails to address some of the issues pertaining to usage (and better usage).

It’s only 1000 words, so not a lot of crazy in-depth analysis, but gives a decent snapshot of a pretty significant environmental challenge that we hear little about (and it’s more of a challenge in other places).

Basically I’m in favour of levying commercial extractors of water, particularly as NZ water is of such a high quality. This essay doesn’t talk too much about water bottling companies, but this is the same area of law being hotly debated here because of the large international contracts being doled out by local governments.

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Read this book that somewhat answers this question quite well. It takes a more Capitalism vs Climate stance but well written.

But with our food miles, cheap labour across global supply chains, major players having a foot hold in WTO rules - it’s a much macro task at hand. Interesting view.