Racism & Sexism (etc) discussion

This was his excuse

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Named and shamed, suspended sentence and I assume he’s been sacked if he had a job?

Feels like a light punishment after watching that

He has genuinely apologised and despite making an excuse, he knows what he did was wrong.
Think the job is done here.
I wouldn’t want that guy to have any further punishment.

PS - How are 50 year old fucks allowed that haircut, although it looks good on him.

Very debatable.

“Although I have recently racially abused people I’m not actually a racist” line doesn’t cut it for me. I don’t like when people caveat bad behavior. It really highlights the dissociation between his actions and the consequences and shows a lack of understanding of what his offence caused.

In the vid post he appears genuinely misguided imo. I need a bigger level of contrition

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I don’t think any racist is going to have a complete turnaround and admit he was being a racist.

Having an awareness and apologizing to those attacked is a good place for such individuals imo.

I think I’d rather go to prison for the 60 days than endure a public shaming.

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A part of me wonders whether the guy would have become even more entrenched in his racist views if he had actually gone inside for a month or two. Might have made him embittered and resentful, rather than contrite and regretful.

In this situation, he’s been named and shamed. It is embarrassing for him and his family. It’s likely that his children / wife have some black friends or colleagues and I’d want the ground to swallow me up if my dad had been charged for racist behaviour like that.

However, at the same time, it’s important to make examples of people. Racially abusing a 19 year old and other young black lads is disgraceful behaviour for a 50 year old father. I’m glad his face and name are out there for people to see, at the least.

Indeed, pretty much a “sorry because I got caught” statement. Even in the link there’s a mention about political correctness.

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Is it though? I mean I grew up far differently to how people do now and I’m not even 30. Imagine how different things were another 20 years prior and the behaviours/thoughts that get instilled in people. No it doesn’t make it right but culture and inherent behaviours don’t change over night.

I’ve said elsewhere before, that racism will take hundreds more years to eradicate, each generation will improve and reduce the number of incidents through learning and greater exposure, but there will always be a subset of each generation for the foreseeable future that either a) don’t give a fuck and choose to be racist or b) learn bad behaviours from previous generations and don’t have the education or willingness to change those.

I get that people want and expect better from everyone currently breathing but regardless of his punishment and ‘‘apology’’ this guy has obviously learned racist behaviours throughout his life and will do well to fully shake them at his age. It’s more about him working to control them even when drunk really.

Maybe a slightly controversial view but just my honest thoughts.

Disagree with the ‘light punishment’ tbh. If the guy has lost his job over this, which I also assume he has, and now has a criminal record and public shaming for being racist then it’s going to be very hard for him to find a new job, especially in the current climate.

End of the day a stupid drunken racist rant could now have him in jeopardy of trying to feed his kids/family etc. Yes he was wrong and yes it is his fault but I think people underestimate the impact just the conviction itself will have, even if deserved.

Obviously I’m not trying to defend the guy btw, conscious my two posts could come across that way. I’m just stating that I think there’s more impact even in what seems a fairly ‘light punishment’ on the face of it.

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Exactly, you can’t expect someone to improve after removing all incentives.
The prospect of being able to move on without drastic punishment will compel him to think about his actions.

Why assume he lost his job and then form your argument around that assumption?

He’s a self-employed plasterer, so no he hasn’t lost his job.

And unfortunately, he shamed himself publicly when he was a racist cunt on social media. I often have some sympathy if someone does something offline or in private communications and its subsequently made public and there’s a massive twitter pile on etc.

But he decided to show his racist arse on social media, so fuck him, could not have more directly asked for the consequences of his actions.

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Because that was what was mentioned in the original post I was replying to. The point still stands just happens to not be as valid in this case, however, I’m sure it’ll still have an impact on his work in the form of less business.

As for the rest, as I said, that was his fault and his mistake, end of story.

Do you now want to comment on whether you think it was a ‘light punishment’ or not? As that’s all I was really responding on.

This statement is quite something given this is caused by people like him not even taking the slightest consideration on how racist abuse (or racism in general) effects people like me and people like Bukayo Saka.

For the record, I don’t think he should lose his job. But this is all a bit rich.

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If it costs him work then fuck him, like I say, it’s a direct consequence of his actions. If you are self employed and you essentially are your own business, you should be especially careful about what you put online. If people don’t want to use his business because he was a racist online, why would I care? If the court ordered he be fired I’d consider it an issue of sorts, but any harm done to his livelihood is not mandated punishment, it would just be people making up their own mind about whether they want to put money in this blokes pocket.

However, I don’t see that it is likely to hurt his business much. If I needed a plasterer and found “Pretty and Sons Decorators” on Google there’s no way I’d make the connection to it being this drunken racists business and then not hire him. I could meet the bloke in the flesh next week and I doubt I’d be able to put his face in context, even if a brief flicker of vague recognition did momentarily occur, which it likely wouldn’t. Even if I did recognise him at my doorstep I wouldn’t then cancel the job if he looked like the best person for the job. I don’t personally hire tradespeople because they’re good people or I feel an alignment with their politics/values.

Is his punishment light? I dunno, depends on how you look at it. He isn’t going to jail, so in that sense it’s lighter than it perhaps could have been. If he had gone to prison I might have leant towards it being a bit harsh. Or even if I wouldn’t go as far as harsh, I would probably question what jailing him would achieve and wonder if it was the best use of public funds. My general position is that custodial sentences generally don’t rehabilitate people and are given out too often, so I would apply that thinking to this case too.

So I guess all in all, I’d probably shrug and say the punishment is probably about right :man_shrugging:

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That’s a fair comment but whilst I mentioned it in this thread, it’s not something that applies only to this crime.

His comments obviously have a lasting effect and that should be considered in his punishment, hopefully it was. By the same token, I wouldn’t consider it a light punishment where anyone loses their job…with or without an accompanying conviction because if you’ve ever experienced it then it can be hell.

Maybe it’s the wrong thread because my view isn’t specific to this guy, I couldn’t really give a toss about a 50 year old geezer from Kent who clearly has racist tendencies but I do think people underestimate the impact of losing employment can have on an individual as well.

That was my only point and as I said, maybe wrong thread to mention it given the sensitive topic.

I don’t mean to double down but:

We should be careful about how lightly we’re applying being drunk here. You’re supposed to be able to handle your drink. A lot of terrible things can happen as a result of being drunk. Sure shouting foul words doesn’t seem high on the list. But it’s the same concept.

Thanks for the time you put into your response, good to get your view and an understanding of your position. Much prefer it to the simple ‘fuck the racist guy’ easy answer people will often give even if they don’t totally believe it themselves.

For what it’s worth I largely agree with everything you’ve said. I’m not trying to make anyone feel sorry for this guy who made his own stupid choices and aired his outdated incorrect views, I don’t feel that way myself either and made a point to say that originally.

If anything it was meant to be much more simple about the impact of losing employment and kind of blew up into something bigger. Now again, whether you feel in any specific case that the loss of employment is fair or harsh etc is completely up to each individual, but I do find it often overlooked when it’s often actually the biggest impact, I mean does this guy really care about the 60 days he will never serve? Of course not, the biggest impact would be to his (or anyone else’s) income. I’m a firm believer that people make mistakes and shouldn’t always be sacked because of every single mistake, you generally only exacerbate the issue by doing so.

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Again, as I originally said, he should be learning to control his thoughts even when drunk. It’s not an excuse at all.

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The best possible outcome of this bloke’s naming and shaming is that it might reduce the number of racist social media posts out there.

We aren’t expecting to cure racism with these sort of punishments but they are a deterrent. If it means ethnic minorities receive less abuse online, and then don’t have to deal with the emotional / mental trauma associated with that sort of abuse, then it’s a win.

Education at a very young age is basically the only way to increase tolerance and acceptance of different cultures, religions etc. Once you’ve reached a certain age, your prejudices have become pretty much permanent and it’s very difficult to train your mind to reject those unconscious thought processes.

Even those 18 year old Portsmouth lads who got caught being racist in a private Snapchat group, it’s probably too late for them to battle those inherent prejudices that have been germinating throughout their formative years to the point where they have pretty much become an instinct deep within their psyche.

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