In an attempt to try and cut through all the noise and get to the very core of the issue being discussed (as I see it): do you think that racism is as big a problem in English football as it is Spanish or Italian?
Racism is a significant issue across Europe, England included but I don’t think you’d see pundits saying a player that had been racially abused needs to “look at himself” in England if he’d been abused the way Vinicius was.
It seems like there’s more denial of the issue in Spain and therefore more permissiveness of it.
I’m sorry but there is something really wrong in the fan cultures of these countries.
When that Tottenham fan abused Sterling - he got banned, no tolerance.
Chelsea fans or other fans didn’t protest, we didn’t have the EPL chairman defend Tottenham.
The tabloids did go after sterlin a little bit they are that level of scum.
This is a factor in why the EPL is far above the other leagues.
In the UK we have YouGov surveys which have asked questions of that nature before. I imagine Spain, Italy and Portugal likely have some equivalent.
After the Euros, unfortunately I can admit there was a lot of racial hatred in the UK towards Rashford, Saka and Sancho after they missed their penalties.
I can’t imagine what kind of language would’ve been used in pubs up & down the country. It would’ve been horrific.
I’m of the belief that when England dropped out as the players missed their penalties, fans in Italy would’ve also been using racist language too, but it wouldn’t have been as bad as the UK, cause Italy ultimately won.
If Italy lost, however… I think it would’ve been just as bad. If it was a black Italian, who missed those penalties, it would’ve been worse.
Just basing this off the experiences I know people have had whilst living in some European countries.
Unfortunately, people appear more upset at being called out as racists than the racist behaviour on display. As evident by Spain this past week.
I think it’s best for ne to stop commenting on this thread because it seems people can’t separate football supporters and a country in general. I’ve never ever come across a poll if you are racist or if all these countries are worse than England.
My advice to you all is stay at home and don’t go on holiday to any of these countries if they are this bad
Now who can’t separate things?
What’s a holiday and the actual destination got to do with the level of racism? For a start if you are white you’d be fine anyway if that’s the only reason not to go.
Let’s be honest youre sensitive to the topic because these countries mean something to you and therefore anything said becomes a bit personal, nothing wrong with that. Nobody is tarnishing the countries as a whole (the closest you’d get to that is my initial comment which I’ve already clarified 3 times).
What I can’t comprehend is the fact you want to completely separate football fans from the society they grow up in. I’m yet to understand why it would only be football fans and if so why are the football fans in these countries so fucking racist? Do they all just get caught up in a herd and think it’s fine in the moment? Or is it that all the racists just choose to follow only football ?
For me the logic isn’t there as to how that can be possible. I understand you’re talking from your experience in the countries (when you actually go somewhere it’s never as bad/dangerous as described) but that doesn’t mean people simply aren’t racist because nobody goes to the orchestra screaming ‘mono’.
I’m not trying to have an argument, I’m understanding what you’re saying but for me racism is a problem driven by the society you grow up in, that’s why it takes generations to improve.
To be clear:
Not all Spain is bad
Not all Spanish are racist
Does Spain have a racism problem? Imo yes
Is that based largely on experience from football? Yes as it’s a topic I actually follow
Do I think it stops there? I’d be very surprised.
England fans get tarnished as a whole by many for the loutish, hooligan behaviour of some of our fans. You could see that in effect if you look back to Euro 2020 for the most recent example. I’m not gonna feel too bad when similar happens for Spanish or Italian fans but regarding racism instead of hooliganism.
I don’t shy away from criticising racism or other discrimination that I feel exists in my country, so I don’t see any reason why it can’t be commented on when it’s an identifiable issue in other countries, doing so doesn’t indicate that I think my country is somehow spotless.
Also doesn’t mean I’m not going to go to these countries on holiday lol. If the existence if racism in a society was good enough reason to not to visit a country you’d literally never go anywhere.
I have to defend England here as most of the abuse was for overseas in places like India
Wait, didn’t we already have this episode?
Yes, I got deja vu, only bit I can’t remember is getting a reply last time…
I am separating football from the country as a whole because it’s easier for an outsider to see that Italy Spain and Portugal had fascist dictatorships something the Brits haven’t had to experience, Margaret Thatcher doesn’t count by the way.
From the view of the media yes racism in Spain and Italy gets reported more and doesn’t seemed to be getting solved . But for some ignorant person to bring Portugal into it hasn’t got a clue.
To get personal for the only time here my wife is of mixed race Portuguese and North African descent and in the public eye never once has she had any abuse whatsoever.
One time in the UK she was speaking in her own language and some cunt told her to speak English and to go back to where they come from.
When I left Ireland as a young kid I went to live in the UK for six months and was bullied for my Irish accent and was called IRA murdering scum.
Every football tournament in the UK, the UK press were unbelievably xenophobic .
So forgive me when I say yes football wise Spanish and Italian football fans are probably more openly racist than the English counterparts, but I’ve been to many Italian Spanish and Portuguese football matches and it happens but very rarely.
So I’m finding it rich that anyone from an English point of view are criticising these countries when you know damn well you still have a problem with racism in football and certainly a problem with racism in England as a whole.
What’s happening with Carlo now. He staying now after the rumours they would look for a change for next season?
There was loads of pressure after City. I think they’re waiting to see out the season and then decide.
There is a good argument that nobody extraordinary is available so you might as well stay with Carlo for another year.
However, it seems like Perez is really keen to bring new galacticos in. Feels like a rebuild really.
I think there is good chance Zidane once again returns.
Interesting. I could imagine the Zidane move if Mbappe went there.
Hi @ryaninho, I can see you’re about today, was wondering if you had any further thoughts on this point of discussion. Would genuinely be interested to know if there is info I’m unaware of that suggests the bulk of racist abuse aimed at black England players came from outside the UK.
Sorry Ryaninho is not here at the moment leave your name and question and I’ll get back to you (maybe). Have nice day, kiss that sweet munchkin and enjoy the sun
Let’s be honest, this isn’t happening is it?