In an attempt to try and cut through all the noise and get to the very core of the issue being discussed (as I see it): do you think that racism is as big a problem in English football as it is Spanish or Italian?
Racism is a significant issue across Europe, England included but I donât think youâd see pundits saying a player that had been racially abused needs to âlook at himselfâ in England if heâd been abused the way Vinicius was.
It seems like thereâs more denial of the issue in Spain and therefore more permissiveness of it.
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Iâm sorry but there is something really wrong in the fan cultures of these countries.
When that Tottenham fan abused Sterling - he got banned, no tolerance.
Chelsea fans or other fans didnât protest, we didnât have the EPL chairman defend Tottenham.
The tabloids did go after sterlin a little bit they are that level of scum.
This is a factor in why the EPL is far above the other leagues.
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In the UK we have YouGov surveys which have asked questions of that nature before. I imagine Spain, Italy and Portugal likely have some equivalent.
After the Euros, unfortunately I can admit there was a lot of racial hatred in the UK towards Rashford, Saka and Sancho after they missed their penalties.
I canât imagine what kind of language wouldâve been used in pubs up & down the country. It wouldâve been horrific.
Iâm of the belief that when England dropped out as the players missed their penalties, fans in Italy wouldâve also been using racist language too, but it wouldnât have been as bad as the UK, cause Italy ultimately won.
If Italy lost, however⌠I think it wouldâve been just as bad. If it was a black Italian, who missed those penalties, it wouldâve been worse.
Just basing this off the experiences I know people have had whilst living in some European countries.
Unfortunately, people appear more upset at being called out as racists than the racist behaviour on display. As evident by Spain this past week.
I think itâs best for ne to stop commenting on this thread because it seems people canât separate football supporters and a country in general. Iâve never ever come across a poll if you are racist or if all these countries are worse than England.
My advice to you all is stay at home and donât go on holiday to any of these countries if they are this bad
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Now who canât separate things?
Whatâs a holiday and the actual destination got to do with the level of racism? For a start if you are white youâd be fine anyway if thatâs the only reason not to go.
Letâs be honest youre sensitive to the topic because these countries mean something to you and therefore anything said becomes a bit personal, nothing wrong with that. Nobody is tarnishing the countries as a whole (the closest youâd get to that is my initial comment which Iâve already clarified 3 times).
What I canât comprehend is the fact you want to completely separate football fans from the society they grow up in. Iâm yet to understand why it would only be football fans and if so why are the football fans in these countries so fucking racist? Do they all just get caught up in a herd and think itâs fine in the moment? Or is it that all the racists just choose to follow only football ?
For me the logic isnât there as to how that can be possible. I understand youâre talking from your experience in the countries (when you actually go somewhere itâs never as bad/dangerous as described) but that doesnât mean people simply arenât racist because nobody goes to the orchestra screaming âmonoâ.
Iâm not trying to have an argument, Iâm understanding what youâre saying but for me racism is a problem driven by the society you grow up in, thatâs why it takes generations to improve.
To be clear:
Not all Spain is bad
Not all Spanish are racist
Does Spain have a racism problem? Imo yes
Is that based largely on experience from football? Yes as itâs a topic I actually follow
Do I think it stops there? Iâd be very surprised.
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England fans get tarnished as a whole by many for the loutish, hooligan behaviour of some of our fans. You could see that in effect if you look back to Euro 2020 for the most recent example. Iâm not gonna feel too bad when similar happens for Spanish or Italian fans but regarding racism instead of hooliganism.
I donât shy away from criticising racism or other discrimination that I feel exists in my country, so I donât see any reason why it canât be commented on when itâs an identifiable issue in other countries, doing so doesnât indicate that I think my country is somehow spotless.
Also doesnât mean Iâm not going to go to these countries on holiday lol. If the existence if racism in a society was good enough reason to not to visit a country youâd literally never go anywhere.
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I have to defend England here as most of the abuse was for overseas in places like India
You sure?
Wait, didnât we already have this episode?
Yes, I got deja vu, only bit I canât remember is getting a reply last timeâŚ
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I am separating football from the country as a whole because itâs easier for an outsider to see that Italy Spain and Portugal had fascist dictatorships something the Brits havenât had to experience, Margaret Thatcher doesnât count by the way.
From the view of the media yes racism in Spain and Italy gets reported more and doesnât seemed to be getting solved . But for some ignorant person to bring Portugal into it hasnât got a clue.
To get personal for the only time here my wife is of mixed race Portuguese and North African descent and in the public eye never once has she had any abuse whatsoever.
One time in the UK she was speaking in her own language and some cunt told her to speak English and to go back to where they come from.
When I left Ireland as a young kid I went to live in the UK for six months and was bullied for my Irish accent and was called IRA murdering scum.
Every football tournament in the UK, the UK press were unbelievably xenophobic .
So forgive me when I say yes football wise Spanish and Italian football fans are probably more openly racist than the English counterparts, but Iâve been to many Italian Spanish and Portuguese football matches and it happens but very rarely.
So Iâm finding it rich that anyone from an English point of view are criticising these countries when you know damn well you still have a problem with racism in football and certainly a problem with racism in England as a whole.
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Whatâs happening with Carlo now. He staying now after the rumours they would look for a change for next season?
There was loads of pressure after City. I think theyâre waiting to see out the season and then decide.
There is a good argument that nobody extraordinary is available so you might as well stay with Carlo for another year.
However, it seems like Perez is really keen to bring new galacticos in. Feels like a rebuild really.
I think there is good chance Zidane once again returns.
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Interesting. I could imagine the Zidane move if Mbappe went there.
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Hi @ryaninho, I can see youâre about today, was wondering if you had any further thoughts on this point of discussion. Would genuinely be interested to know if there is info Iâm unaware of that suggests the bulk of racist abuse aimed at black England players came from outside the UK.
Sorry Ryaninho is not here at the moment leave your name and question and Iâll get back to you (maybe). Have nice day, kiss that sweet munchkin and enjoy the sun
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Letâs be honest, this isnât happening is it? 
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