Yeah. It’s all well and good criticising them for the lack of NT success (despite both guys being winners of their continental titles and scoring insane numbers of goals for their respective countries).
If people want to shit on them for not winning a WC that’s fine but they share 12 balon d’ors and pretty much every imaginable record in football
It’s part of the discussion though surely. The issue with these two players is they are in their 5th tournament and question marks hang over how well they have actually performed.
I agree.
There have been plenty of great footballers that have played for weak national sides.
Messi was by far the best player at Barcelona who were one of the greatest and most successful teams that Europe has seen, which is a lot more impressive than being the best player in an international team.
Every elite player will win trophies at club level but loads have never won the World Cup.
George Best the cunt, too.
So what are we saying then? Whoever wins the WC between Messi and Ronaldo will have the edge over the other?
How about we name Messi the greatest player in La Liga history and Ronaldo the greatest player in CL history and call it a day.
There’s only one guy that holds the Mr Mundial honour and that’s Pele, for now…
We’ll see if Mbappe changes that.
Messi should only get shit for 2010. He was pathetic that world cup after his club feats
2014 they got to the final and we’re probably the better team in that final.
2006 he was too young. The 2018 team was shit and this one is average.
Ronaldo got to a world cup semi with Portugal, more then what figo managed and on par with eusebio right?
I don’t think they under achieved tbh.
Here’s how I see the question and it’s for each individual to answer.
Have they performed too their undoubted talent on this stage?
Cruyff never won the world cup but definitely did.
Platini the same. Have these two players?
There must be plenty of top quality players like him that haven’t even played in a World Cup, let alone win it.
There must also be loads of Ballon d’or winners haven’t played for a World Cup winning team.
Messi didn’t in 2014?
5 MOTM awards?
Or be like Puskas and play for two different countries 
He got player of the tournament and it received a fair bit of criticism at the time.
A final is worthy tbh and I doubt they make it without him, but did we see him at his best I don’t think we did.
James Rodriguez was player of the tournament without a doubt but Messi still lived up to the billing, he got them to the final and if not for some mental fragility from Higuain he’d already have one in the bag
Messi is now tbf.
Ronaldo did in moments. They’ve been part of dysfunctional setups that did not give them the same platform for success as guys like Mbappe and Neymar, along with the historical legends.
You know what though in his defence and I think even Mourinho pointed it out at the time was that he was having to drop deep due to lack of creativity and ability to progress the ball so he was shouldering the entire creative burden of the squad
@Darkseid @Electrifying fair answers lads. As I framed the question it’s on the individual to answer.
It’s not an exact science but one that will always get brought into the mix with the bigger debate.
I wonder if Messi hates Higuain for that final lol
The criticism Higuain gets for Argentina is over the top to me. Oh, he missed a chance? Well, all forwards do.
Messi missed a big one in that final as well if I remember correctly.
I’m still not seeing enough discussion around Aguero. Easy to target Higuain, Lavezzi, Di Maria or Messi but there isn’t enough talk about Aguero. All I remember this guy doing for Argentina is scoring in friendlies and being dog shite when it actually mattered.
And let’s be real here about Argentina in 2014, Argentina’s best strength that World Cup was their defence. You just don’t get far enough in the WC without a good defence.
Rojo and Romero made their names in that World Cup.
The Messi chance and Higuain one are not really comparable tbh and Higuain was poor in that game period it wasn’t just the single chance, he dropped a 2/10 in a WC final which is egregious especially when you’re supposed to be one of the worlds better #9’s
Aguero definitely should have given more on the international stage though
No doubt. Production in big moments for your nation absolutely enhances how you’re seen in the future, on the same hand struggles should be viewed as a negative.
Someone like Neymar absolutely has to deliver for Brazil in the WC
That was me.
I use the WC to distinguish Messi and CR7 and use it to distinguish Maradona and Messi