I think the writer should attach their name to the article if you’re setting forth professional opinions based on expertise.
There’s no data or numbers in the article either
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come on bro this is an opinion piece by some pussy who is to scared to write it in their own name. May as well be something from 4Chan. No data, just someone who is pissed off with people not getting the vaccine.
After nearly 2 years what’s become clear from all the data is that most people do not end up in ICU, it barely effects most people, vaccines and lockdowns don’t do shit to stop the spread, and really outside of the internet no one cares anymore. All this scare mongering crap from bs places like the Guardian are only going to push people further away and next time if there ever is an outbreak of something that will kill people no one will take it seriously.
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I think you need to sympathise a little with each and every government in the world.
Name me one country where they have managed Covid with perfection.
There is no handbook, there are no guidelines. No one has any clue what’s coming ahead.
Last year the only way to handle this pandemic was reducing the load on hospitals, hence the lockdown. This year, the only way out was vaccination and no matter what you think of the vaccination, do we have a better alternative?
Right now, if we want to save the upcoming surge, what other options do we have but to reduce spread via unvaccinated?
You are pushing way too hard (& way too obvious) to stamp the argument against the vaccinated but you have no data to back it up.
I had interactions with a nurse in Austria and she confirmed that it is mostly unvaccinated who are admitted with serious illness.
Even if the vaccinated people are not taking care about social distancing and testing; it is not their fault that the unvaccinated got infected by them because it is not their fault that the infected person was unvaccinated. The unvaccinated would have fended off the virus just like the vaccinated spreader did.
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If he had his name on the article, if he put in the numbers that are readily available on the gov website or haven’t been recorded, but he being a hospital consultant would know based on his observation (which would be more accurate than most other people) and those figures he could collect to prove his point…
If he did all of that, I doubt you guys would be swayed.
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I’ve been looking for the number of unvaccinated individuals currently hospitalized, but can’t find it? I don’t think a stat like that is being publicly recorded and published.
It’s 34% apparently from 20 Oct
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What are you talking about. I literally provide the data time after time again.
If you can’t use your grey matter, well that’s a different problem.
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In the Netherlands as per last official data. 56% are unvaccinated on ICUs and 44% are vaccinated.
The problem is, vaccinated account for 84.7% of the population and don’t need to test for anything despite being able to carry the virus and spread the virus.
We have more cases now than a year ago, when there were 0 vaccinated people.
And I am told by @Trion I don’t provide data. This is the data. It’s up to the individual to connect the dots.
I am not against vaccinated people. I am against the dumb policy. Either everyone tests and we contain or nobody tests and we let the virus run it’s course.
This testing for unvaccinated, who are a tiny minority by now, but no testing required for vaccinated people who are by far the majority in the Netherlands is what I have a problem with. It’s the reason we have record amount of cases.
The data and evidence is there.
Unless you’re just trolling, this makes zero sense.
You certainly can’t believe yourself what you just wrote.
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Yeah I don’t think it’s routinely collected, and it would be kind of hard to collect.
Sometimes people aren’t asked on admission if they’ve been vaccinated which is kind of fair enough because it doesn’t really matter most of the time.
The treatments and tests are the same so it won’t change management.
Yeah because it would probably show something similar to what @Forever put up before and that is there is no real tangible difference.
I’ve honestly had enough of this crap, like all these dumb memes and online abuse, people smuggly posting to put others down. Rando “experts” like that Scottish doctor chiming in at every opportunity trying to make a name for themselves, It’s gone beyond ridiculous. If your so shook of this illness then don’t leave your house, and if you do get vaccinated, wear gloves and a mask an a visor, and move on with your life, quit trying to force me to do anything.
Like at this point who here hasn’t had covid or doesn’t know someone who’s had covid? Honestly how many of those do you know have died from it? I know 3 people who I know know who have died, 2 were over 65 and one was a woman in her 50s who had a serious heart condition. My family, from my side and my wives number in the hundreds in total, my work associates, people I know and friends number in the hundreds just like everyone else. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t had covid bar the kiddies, and no one has died or even been put into ICU, in my family group and community were looking at maybe 30% of people being vaccinated, and they’ve caught it as well. Long and short of it being, this virus is not a threat to like 90% of people, everyone realised this now but because of all these bullshit lockdowns, scaremongering and side effects even the people who have been vaccinated ain’t going to get boosters. I got friends saying their joints are aching, their getting headaches and dizziness all after the vaccine. Most people I know who I’ve spoken to feel like they’ve been lied to, had there’s lives nearly ruined all because of a glorified flu. Next time if something serious comes along NO ONE will take it seriously, and we will start seeing people dying in droves before anything will be done because of how this has been handled over the last 2 years by both the government and the media.
People can say this is all anecdotal, which it is but my lived life experience goes a long way in shaping my opinion on something, and I just can’t take any of this stuff seriously anymore. I don’t have anything against anyone who wants to get the vaccine, by all means get it for the rest of your lives but stop creating all these false narratives and trying to force others into getting something they don’t want and does nothing to stop the spread of the virus.
Edit: I’ll add I’ve lived my life as normally as possible out nearly every day, family gatherings and bbqs and parties sometimes with 30/40 people when you include the kids, get a hair cut once a week, shopping, go out to eat. No one has ever asked me for anything, because no one cares anymore. No amount of vaccine id going to change that.
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Anyone know the situation in Singapore? Pretty sure they went early with the “zero covid is a fallacy, let’s open shit back up”… Is it bad there?
I’ve been to a bunch of third world countries not that Singapore is one of them, and there all basically like that.
In some places they got these markets called “bazaars” or “souks” and there are thousands of people moving through as if it was a bomb threat at a stadium and there was only once exist. People just casually getting on with their lives as if there isn’t a pandemic at all.
I was in Iraq back in January of 2020 first month or so they put the whole country in lockdown, like military check points in every neighbourhood, airports, border crossings everything shut down. After a month when data started coming in the most people weren’t dying everything went back to nearly normal. During that period for work, I went Emirates, Qatar, Jordan and Syria. Before flying to Germany and then back to the UK in June. None of those Middle Eastern countries had any kind of restrictions outside of maybe some basic ones at government institutions.
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How is it no difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated when there are literally now almost 10x as many people in the vaccinated group?
If they have a similar number in ICU (from what @Forever posted - and in fact I’m being kind because there seem to be more unvaccinated in the ICU group), but they make up 1/10th of the population, how is that the same?
This is what I mean. There is no point even having a discussion.
You’ve made your mind up.
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@Forever numbers show it’s 56% unvaccinated to 44% vaccinated in the ICU. That’s not really a big difference at all. Considering how this was meant to save us all from covid.
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Again, please read what I mean in my post.
It’s the same thing percentages wise we use to show Black people are disproportionately incarcerated.
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But over 80% of the population is vaccinated, it clearly shows that unvaccinated are much more likely to be in ICU.
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Going by forevers data which is from the Dutch government, it’s not that big of a difference if 44% of those in the ICU for covid are vaccinated.
But let’s say that’s all wrong and it’s all unvaccinated people in the ICU, why do people who are vaccinated care? This vaccine going to protect them no or do I know need to be vaccinated to protect those already vaccinated?
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Because lockdown is for everyone.
I wouldn’t care of not for that
You cannot be this obtuse surely.
Say hypothetically the Netherlands population is 1 million and an ICU has 10 beds.
According to @Forever 's data, and rounding up.
There are 850,000 vaccinated people and 150,000 unvaccinated.
And then 4 vaccinated and 6 unvaccinated people in an ICU.
Then you have a 4 in 850,000 chance of being in an ICU if vaccinated, while a 6 in 150,000 chance if unvaccinated.
That’s a big difference.
And those 4 may also not have had a proper immune response to the vaccine, due to being immunocompromised etc.
But this is my last post on it for now.
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Personal opinion I think this blaming vaccinated vs unvaccinated is a red herring and too much energy is being exhausted on this. Right now governments should have some actual plan and actual strategy to combat what’s going on.
I’m not as adverse to the idea of Lockdowns as others, but we have to real. If we’re implementing lockdowns now there was never a plan. This is the second winter with the pandemic and I’m not convinced there was much preparation.
I mean the objective has never changed right? Preventing the spread of COVID. Yet there doesn’t seem to be any rigorous testing procedure or system implemented in any western country. These anecdotes about travelling sums it up.
TL;DR Governments and Strategy should be criticised, not people.
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Exactly.
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