Correct, if you focus on just offsides (refs 08 vs ref+var 23) then there will be an improvement.
However, if you focus on just the refs (well linesman really) in both years, then I think 2023 would show more mistakes.
My main argument against VAR is that it’s a crutch for the refs and actually leading to reduced overall quality of them. You might get total offsides correct more often but you’ve caused more mistakes in the first place and then spent 5 mins every time drawing lines (or forgetting to if you’re lee mason).
Automated tech for offside can work in the same way goalline tech does. Both of those uses are acceptable to me.
Apart from penalties, use of VAR is extremely minimal in other aspects of the game right now. Individual fouls are not reviewed unless deemed dangerous and second yellow is not reviewed.
Where is it that referring has seen reduced overall quality due to being reliant on VAR?
Every aspect, they know now that any bad foul, any penalty shout, any goal, any offside can be reviewed and corrected. Reduces the need to make the correct decision first time.
I’d limit the tech to objective decisions and take those out of the refs hands. It’s either in the net or not, tech can decide. It’s either offside or not, tech can decide.
Is it a red or not? Ref can decide, it’s just another ref in the booth anyway so leave it with the first guy and if they fuck up so be it.
How many times do we talk about this clear and obvious bullshit and debate whether VAR should even have gotten involved? Half the time they get involved for the sake of it and ruin the game.
First it was we are making the same amount of mistakes.
We clearly reduced the mistakes. Offside calls are highly accurate, red cards & penalties are more fairly given (still subjective but fair).
There is hardly any oversight these days.
The only issue is this whole ‘clear and obvious’ bullshit.
Refs performance quality has reduced because they are reliant on VAR
VAR is not being used in instances beyond penalties, offside, last man tackle and aggressive tackles.
The reduced quality in referring performance is down to the decisions referees make without VAR.
Is it a red or not? Ref can decide, it’s just another ref in the booth anyway so leave it with the first guy and if they fuck up so be it.
Why? who gives a fuck if the decision takes a minute longer? I rather want the correct decision than the decision taken by refs who you yourself accuse of having reduced quality performance.
You are contradicting yourself.
Well it’s a pretty impossible example you’re asking for because I could say the ref should’ve sent Saliba off first time without requiring VAR. At the same time you will tell me ‘see VAR made the right call there’.
But we don’t know if he would still make that mistake regardless of VAR or not. What I’m talking about is the principle of having a crutch to save you means you have less pressure to get it right.
It’s the same at my work, if I am ultimately responsible for a piece of work then I have to take extra care and effort in it. If I know there is a layer or two protection from more senior managers then I am less at risk if I make a mistake, either they will catch it or they will take the first beating.
Like I said originally, I’m not gonna be able to watch every game from 08 and 23 to conclude the argument, so I’ll just stick with my opinion that VAR was not missed last night at all. Personally I’d never miss it if it ceased to exist but I can see good value in the automated aspects of it if you want some middle ground.
Alright I understand now.
Honestly, I have never liked the skillset of PL refs to rely on their first instinct calls. I have been burnt so many times by their real time calls.
I will always be glad about VAR. It will reach a stage where we don’t bicker about VAR as much.
Hopefully, since I doubt they will reverse the decision to bring it in.
Given that, we need refs to use the screen and also have the balls to stick with their calls if need be. As it stands, the screen is used too infrequently and usually a death knell when it is used.
I remember one ref reviewing the screen and choosing to keep his original decision, it was great to see. The more that legitimately happens the less they’ll go over almost expecting to have been wrong.
As sham said, it should be a beneficial aid. ATM I think it’s a crutch.
Generally speaking, yes. I think with the automated you could actually implement the “daylight” rule and maybe the exact scenario Wenger has proposed tips it a little bit too much in the attackers favour but its a positive development all told.
I want offside to also consider defenders’ body positioning. If they are facing away from the goal, the attacker should have his whole body in line with defenders. If they are facing the goal, some leeway is given to the attacker.