Unai Emery

Been a while since we were 4 points off the top in November IIRC…

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Even so the circumstances are different because we’ve frequently had to come back into the game in the second half of games.

There’s a statistic floating about here that highlights just how shit we were in terms of coming back from going down after the first half under Wenger in the latter half of his tenure, it was truly some embarrassing stuff.

In 16/17 we were only two points off Liverpool after eleven games.

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This is an entirely different Liverpool team

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He’s gone. Accept it

I’m not sure that was the point in the post I was responding too.

Still less hostile than telling them to suck your dick lol

But aside from finding that amusing, I can see why you’re getting wound up. I do think your tone/underlying message is a bit too negative (but I agree with the core message) despite those chances they had the game did feel qualitatively different from many under Wenger, even if quantitively the number of chances was similar.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with meeting in the middle between you and your detractors. Yes we conceded big chances and could easily have lost, but we weren’t getting ripped to shreds with zero game plan like we often saw under Wenger. We identified weaknesses in the opponents and methodically sought to expose them (Fabinho) and often when we lost the ball or didn’t have it you could see a noticeable structure to the midfield and defence, an organisation that was rarely seen under Wenger.

I don’t see any difficulty acknowledging that we still could have lost yesterday but also feeling pretty positive about quite a few elements that felt like signs of progression under a new manager.

You like to be a bit contrarian, as do I, and you have to realise that when you take a contrarian position people might not like it. It comes with the territory. Being told to chill the fuck out or whatever is really mild compared to the kind of reaction a contrarian will often get on the internet when shitting on other people’s good vibe. So just deal with it is my view, basically. If it gets way more hostile then fair play, but everything I’ve seen has been fairly mild, you just don’t want to hear it.

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How anyone can be positive about conceding chances against a team which went all the way to the Champions League final last season and is notoriously known for having one of the best attacks at the moment is beyond my comprehension as well. We cannot rejoice in a 1-1 and a great display of desire from our team, after all what if Liverpool had converted their chances!?

My post was regarding the celebrations of 5th place in November. Pause on that for a minute

Not a single person actually celebrating this.

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It’s not Emery’s fault we had to start the season off against two of the strongest teams, with our team in a complete shambles after last season.

All we could have asked from Unai is to beat every single lesser opponent in front of us and that is what he has done. So 5th is a very good place to be in right now, because I am 99% sure under Wenger we would not sit 5th right now, but rather 9th or 10th as there is no way we would have turned around and won some of the games we did now.

I guess this is the problem. I honestly don’t see it as being a contrarian, well not in this case at least. I actually saw Liverpool, all-in-all, having a good 5 scoring opportunities or so which they would have made any another day. Something that has been a problem for us against Watford and Leicester too. Those were also two games where we were a bit lucky. Without putting a certain value on Emery’s work other than it’s a point of improvement. And yet it’s been put like being negative.

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I hear you, I do.

I suppose we went through the entire game without having chances that we could have scored? You’re right, Liverpool should have won 4-0 based on your objective analysis :xhaka:

You’re quick to point out the chances Liverpool had but basically discounting all of our own goods moments that should be offset against that, where a final ball or scuffed / blocked shot could have led to a goal.

Also, I’m tired of the argument that Team A should have been a goal up etc (and this isn’t directly just at you btw) - the whole trajectory of the game will have changed at that point if it had indeed gone in and it’s impossible to predict what could have happened after that point. For the record, Liverpool did end up taking the lead first, but we came back to equalise regardless. That same thing could have happened if that goal had not been given offside. Your view is that if it had gone in, oh we definitely would have lost but in reality, we did in fact go a goal down and responded by scoring ourselves.

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But the timing of the games is an excuse. He had pre-season to drill his team.

I mean maybe in theory he improves the team throughout the season okay, maybe. But that isn’t a given.

Have we improved? In theory we could have beaten Chelsea but like SDGooner points out, we could easily have lost to Liverpool too. So is there a progression? We’ll see in due time.

I don’t think anyone is even really disagreeing with you. Most of us agree that our defence is a shambles and needs sorting.

However, there are a lot of positives to take from these games. We do play with much more desire. We do seem to have a strategy and plan. The players and the coach are building to something great and with the right new signing to strengthen our defence we will be in a very good spot come next season.

No, 1-3 or 2-3 :wink:.

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It is not an excuse. Mourinho sitting 7th on the table in his 3rd season with a United squad he had time and resources to mould to his vision, that would be an excuse to use the start of the season in an argument.

Unai is thrown into the deep end with a pre-season (after World Cup to boot) to get his team in shape and ready to beat last season’s Champions? And a Chelsea which are to this moment still UNBEATEN and in a very good shape? Those two teams as the first two games of his season start. And you call that an excuse?

Come on man.

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I’m just glad we didn’t lose 5-1

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But he has to play them sooner or later anyway. That gave an indication or where the team was then. But realistically is this performance better than the Chelsea game?