The State of The Arsenal

[Bavin]

@Joshua

He’s still been the decision maker behind all these guys being at the club. If he didn’t want Nelson or ESR or Eddie to be here those guys wouldn’t still be here. He gave all three of those guys new contracts.

I covered this in the parts of my post you didn’t quote:

"Realistically, you’re only signing 3-4 players per window, and the same with guys going out and when guys go out, you need to replace them with better players.

We are still in the stages of needing to add more overall depth and quality, whether people want to pretend like there are quality options or not, a quick comparison with City or Liverpool makes that issue pretty clear and both have built their squads over 7 or 8 years."

So, sure, he could have got rid of any of them but that would have likely been at the expense of signing any of the guys we have signed in the last 4 years and overall we would still be in more or less the same position in terms of depth and numbers.

I think overall we have had a good strike rate on the success of our incoming transfers, so it’s hard to even pick out one deal and say another should have happened instead because (a) we now have hindsight to pick out a different player and say we should have gotten them instead which isn’t the same circumstances presented to our management team at the time and (b) it would still leave us in more or less the same position in terms of quality and depth as above.

We can absolutely debate the level of quality of the squad as is, but my personal view is we are about 3 or 4 guys away from being in the conversation with City or Pool on that front.

If it was as simple as just buying and selling as many players as one wants then I don’t think any of them would be here but as above there are some realistic limitations that you need to take into account if you are going to find grounds for specific criticisms.

I can definitely understand criticism based on the lack of variance tactically or the lack of proactive or even reactive use of other players in the squad during games but as per all of the above, it’s lacking in context to say this is purely his squad and depth or quality issues are entirely down to personal choice.

[Broughie]

Does he? I am not sold. But it is what it is and as fans we have not control. We can only comment based on what we believe our problems and needs are.

[ronniec]

Yes, we all can have our opinion, amateur ones.

[Broughie]

Yes. Your opinions are amatuer as well. But we listen to them.

[ronniec]

I already included myself when I said it.

[Broughie]

good to know.

[ronniec]

I said, “we all”

[Pires]

@The_Invincibles

The dynamic in midfield has changed this season, because Rice is a difference and more defensive player than Partey, but that has given us the freedom to play two No.8s and still be able to dominate possession, allowing us to maintain the press high up in the opposition third. The recent home match against Brighton is a good example of this.

You have just described one of the issues here.

Our play this season has kinda been to pin down the opponent high and trying to break them while they have that double block settled, with Ode and Havertz high up the pitch…

But our ball progression from our half has regressed, and that’s why we can’t catch the opponent when there’s more space up front. That’s why it’s more difficult these season for our forwards.

Our ball progression has got worse both vertically and laterally. Rice is a downgrade in that department compared to Partey, just as much Havertz is compared to Xhaka.
Not that Xhaka was Pirlo, but only now I realise how good he actually was last season and I appreciate him more now. He just had that quality to be in the right place at the right time, be open to recieve a pass and keep the ball going.

Also Rice, his movement off the ball is quite shit at time in terms of being that pivotal point in midfield, being able to recieve the ball at all times. Often I sed him almost bumping into team mates when he’s trying to find a position to open himself for the pass. Partey did that so effortlessly. He’ll get there I guess, even Partey couldn’t play that role when he was young, took some experience to get there. That’s why I wanted to see Rice in that Xhaka role this season primarily, with Partey or Jorginho ocuppying the 6.
I was absolutely shocked to see Havertz being pushed as that left number 8 and I’m still adapting to that.

I think Arteta made too drastic changes too our midfield that was working great last season.
One alone (of Rice and Havertz) would be a small issue, but two of them together being intergated into the team at once, in such important positions, are a huge issue atm.

Let’s say, hypothetically, we had a more experienced midfielder (an actual midfielder in first place), a better ball progressor in stead of Kai, someone like Gundo, Maddison etc etc, wih Rice, that would still look good I guess.
Or, if we had a guy like Xabi Alonso, Busquets, Rodri etc in stead of Rice. But Rice AND Kai, both not being great in terms of playmaking etc, are a huge isssue atm.

I think this is a huge mistake Arteta made this summer and I’m pretty sure he’s aware of it now and will react to it in the market soon (Zubat).
I guess he expected Partey to be more available than he was, to make make this transition a bit easier… But he was still not going be an out and out starter this season, Rice and Kai were the fiest choices anyway. And that’s the mistake.

Or is it? Maybe he really did plan to play Partey and Rice together, Idk…
Mikel, wink if you see this

[GC-Maniac]

Was it less that two weeks that we probably played our best football to date under Arteta and even De Zerbi called us the best team in the league?

[BergkampsLoveChild]

I don’t think teams fear us, however, I fear everyone because as Luton have shown, everyone has the capacity to beat us and they know it.

[Joshua]

@Bavin

but as above there are some realistic limitations that you need to take into account if you are going to find grounds for specific criticisms

What limitations though? We hear all the time that a club has told Player X to go find a new team because they’re not going to get any playing time.

@Bavin

I can definitely understand criticism based on the lack of variance tactically or the lack of proactive or even reactive use of other players in the squad during games but as per all of the above, it’s lacking in context to say this is purely his squad and depth or quality issues are entirely down to personal choice

If it’s not his squad, whose squad is it? Not Wenger’s, not Unai’s. Arteta built this squad through signings and renewals but he’s hit a plateau imo. It was his choice to build the squad this way and prioritize the positions he did. It’s largely worked but his selective ruthlessness when it comes to certain players is a weakness as is his inability to put together a deeper bench he trusts. He spoke about wanting a bigger squad but we’re right back where we were with maybe 15 guys he trusts. That’s something he needs to figure out how to manage.

[Bavin]

@Joshua

What limitations though? We hear all the time that a club has told Player X to go find a new team because they’re not going to get any playing time.

Come on, I covered this in the post. Yes we could get rid of any player but, as I mentioned, that requires a replacement so you can pick whoever you want to go but the issue of replacements and overall squad depth is still going to be there because realistically you aren’t going to be doing more than 3 or 4 guys in in a major window. You can argue we should do more than that but the reality just doesn’t really allow for that.

I’m not saying we couldnt have gotten rid of x or y player, I’m saying we would still have the issue of a lack of depth because we have maxxed our incomings in the last few major windows.

@Joshua

If it’s not his squad, whose squad is it? Not Wenger’s, not Unai’s. Arteta built this squad through signings and renewals but he’s hit a plateau imo. It was his choice to build the squad this way and prioritize the positions he did. It’s largely worked but his selective ruthlessness when it comes to certain players is a weakness as is his inability to put together a deeper bench he trusts. He spoke about wanting a bigger squad but we’re right back where we were with maybe 15 guys he trusts. That’s something he needs to figure out how to manage.

Why does it have to be so rigidly defined like that? My point above essentially covers that.

Do you genuinely think if we didnt have realisitc constraints that Arteta and co wouldn’t have added more quality? I’m talking money, FFP, realisitc incomings/outgoings etc.

Right now you’re implying there aren’t these constraints even though it’s quite clearly evidenced by the way the Raya deal was done.

[Joshua]

@Bavin

Right now you’re implying there aren’t these constraints even though it’s quite clearly evidenced by the way the Raya deal was done.

I don’t see how I’m implying there are no constraints. I think you’re letting Arteta off the hook in terms of the responsibility he has to build a squad capable of absorbing players going in and out of form. I don’t think he’s really managed to do that. You could say we’ve been unlucky with injuries but I also think that he attempted a new style of play this season that was both found out real fast and doesn’t work with any of our depth options.

And I think it’s precisely because of some of the FFP constraints that I think he (and to an extent Edu) can be rightly criticized for the squad build. If the club thought they’d bank 35m for Tierney and they couldn’t get it, why not entertain offers for ESR even if they fall below some pie-in-the-sky price point the club would want? At that point you have to recognize that he’s not going to make it here and sell him on. If he turns into a world class player later that’s life but maybe the money we would have got for ESR in the summer could have been used to buy a wide forward. Instead we’ve (again) had players clearly out of favor who have their value being diminished by the day because Arteta won’t use them outside of garbage time.

He’s got a lot right, but he’s not above criticism. The constraints you’re talking about exist for basically every club. He’s chosen to operate within them a certain way and I think it’s fair to question some of the results.

[Hass]

A classic glass half full spin on the season so far. Topped off with citing the City win as evidence for the teams progression conveniently ignoring all the crap surrounding it. Spin it however you want, this season has quite clearly been a net negative so far. Both on the eyes and on the stats sheet. Does that mean we can’t turn it around? No. But is the season looking promising as far as progression goes? Hell no. The focus on individual battles between Rice and Partey or Havertz and Xhaka is pointless. As a team we’re just not looking like challengers.

[ronniec]

This sideway/backward passing is the general issue for the whole team.

(1) No risk no reward : Gunners (reddit.com)

[The_Invincibles]

@Pires

I think Arteta made too drastic changes too our midfield that was working great last season. One alone (of Rice and Havertz) would be a small issue, but two of them together being intergated into the team at once, in such important positions, are a huge issue atm.

I really don’t understand the criticism of Arteta making two midfield signings in Rice and Havertz. Xhaka had to be sold last summer otherwise we would have lost him on a free transfer. Rice has been the transfer of the season, and where would we be without Rice, with Partey injured. Rice settled very quickly into the team and his stats in terms of interceptions and ball progression are impressive. Havertz has taken longer to adapt into the team and system, but I think he is there now. Also for the first 19 games of the season, this hasn’t really cost us.

@Hass

A classic glass half full spin on the season so far. Topped off with citing the City win as evidence for the teams progression conveniently ignoring all the crap surrounding it. Spin it however you want, this season has quite clearly been a net negative so far. Both on the eyes and on the stats sheet. Does that mean we can’t turn it around? No. But is the season looking promising as far as progression goes? Hell no. The focus on individual battles between Rice and Partey or Havertz and Xhaka is pointless. As a team we’re just not looking like challengers.

I make no apologies for my optimism. We’re only at the half way point in the season and up to the last two games, most people had us down as challenging for the league. I disagree with you as well about our playing style this season. Some of the football has been fantastic to watch IMO. We can still have a great season. All teams have a dip in form and performance and hope we recover quickly from this. As for ending my point on the win over City…I stand by this…remind me…how many previous attempts have we had at beating City in the league???

[Mercenary]

https://x.com/footiecenter/status/1742893019425038748?s=46

[Bl1nk]

But do they control games like we do?

[Flexo]

@Bl1nk

But do they control games like we do?

[SuperArsenal1886]

Set-pieces and last minute winners FC