The Environment

I can dictate terms of a debate just fine lol that’s a made up rule.

This was my initial post:

1/3 of the next response was about governments to which I’ve consistently said that both sides have no idea.

In terms of ‘engaging’, you’re right, I did engage, by asking for some evidence as to why one side is better than the other in terms of CC action. To which I received a response of “well, who is worse than Bolsanaro”. It’s not really a wholesome answer that supports the previous worries of incoming right-wing governments.

This is in addition to no answer to my question about what the ideal speed of change and response to climate issues is required. “Left v Right”, “ideal speed of change required”, they’re mostly just blanket terms very rarely backed up by anything else tangible, as we have seen in this case.

Do you think people flying thousands of miles to conventions on very specific environmental issues use blanket terms as their main source of information? lol

My point is really that it’s not as big a factor as many people may think, and on top of that, my general feeling, based on a pretty decent knowledge base, is that political discourse is far more simplistic than much of what is going on in this space, so that’s why I take a pretty cold view to the idea of party politics being the proverbial saviour.

I’ve provided more than enough actual material for discussion, and I’ve had more questions not answered. This has been a poor analysis on your part imo lol

This has been a boring analysis on your part imo lol

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Like, I should just mind my own business, I don’t even care and I’m making you type words. Leave you two to it.

I have zero interest in forum ‘back and forths’ that (as far as I’m concerned) boil down to ‘he said she said’ tussles over semantics, so I’ll quite happily leave Bavin to it having skim read said back and forth :laughing:

Since I want this thread to be filled with fun stuff, here’s a short essay I wrote a couple of years ago about water management in New Zealand and how our current legislation fails to address some of the issues pertaining to usage (and better usage).

It’s only 1000 words, so not a lot of crazy in-depth analysis, but gives a decent snapshot of a pretty significant environmental challenge that we hear little about (and it’s more of a challenge in other places).

Basically I’m in favour of levying commercial extractors of water, particularly as NZ water is of such a high quality. This essay doesn’t talk too much about water bottling companies, but this is the same area of law being hotly debated here because of the large international contracts being doled out by local governments.

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Read this book that somewhat answers this question quite well. It takes a more Capitalism vs Climate stance but well written.

But with our food miles, cheap labour across global supply chains, major players having a foot hold in WTO rules - it’s a much macro task at hand. Interesting view.

Jane Goodall getting quite alot of flak for these comments

I suppose what she is saying is demonstrably true, but by the same measure, if people (not just individuals, humanity generally, including corporations and governments) weren’t so selfish and wasteful, the earth could sustain the kind of population we have without it being quite so problematic. Hesitant to quote it, so pinch of salt here, but saw a stat somewhere saying something like a third of all food in the world isn’t consumed. Seemed crazily high to me, and even if its bollocks, we do waste incredible amounts of food. Seems a bit much to talk about there being too many people and the issues with feeding that many people, being able to grow enough food etc, when obscene amounts of food get wasted. When we’re generally so shitty with resources.

But yeah, saying environmental issues would be far less significant if there were like 80% fewer people seems fairly obvious and undeniable. But I guess people find it distasteful because they interpret the message as being not a million miles off “if those foreign breeders would give it a rest us white people in the West could continue to comfortably live our indulgent, wasteful and harmful lifestyles with little to no consequence”

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Yes this is true from what I have also read.

Also interesting to look at it from a farming point of view. Harvesting is a pretty complicated business. Take rice for example, in India it’s predicted that one in three tonnes of rice rots in the farm before it’s sold on due to the substandard of warehousing and roads etc.

Like you I’ve definitely not plucked this finger out of the air, I’m pretty sure I have read this from a reliable source but struggling to find one online at the moment.

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Food is generally overproduced anyway. It’s now about pleasure rather than sustenance. If we were eating only to sustain ourselves we could probably produce 1/3 of the food we do now and we could eat more environmentally sustainable foods.

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Doesn’t help we have so many knobhead celebrity chefs that think high level cooking is so important and prestigious.

Added to all the shitty YouTube shows that basically involve white people eating food and filming it.

its not just that, look at these shows like masterchef when you have 20odd contestants which get whittled down until there is a winner constantly making dish after dish for the judges of which they take a bite and judge it and that is it…so what happens with all of that each time there is a challenge there are 20 odd plates of food when judged iny one plate in total is tasted the rest is binned. All these competition shows with baking like bake off etc they make a dozen loaves or buns a mouthful is tastes then you have 100 buns sat there being wasted then the next challenge happens again. Then you think of how many of the competition shows there are. Unless they have a plan for the leftovers that is a total waste…especially when the stuff like showstoppers etc are like 3 tier cakes and they take a slice and taste a mouthful and you have 10 3 tier cakes sitting there afterwards just think of the potential wastage for each show it could feed a small street.

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Maybe the backroom staff eat it

That’s far more thought and analysis than a show about baking warrants lol

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it just always had me wondering, it isnt just one baking show is it, there are masterchefs shows all around the world cooking shows with competitions all around the world it is a very big thing at the moment. There are tonnes of them and they all cook in huge quantities because of the amount of contestants involved. What they have to make for each show and some of the things are quite large like 3 tier cakes etc. I have always wondered what happens to it all once done.

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I think you should do an exposé behind the scenes documentry on this tbh

That’s far more thought and analysis than a comment about your comment about a baking show warrants lol

Attenborough and Goodall’s view can be criticised in terms of the food sustainability for our own survival angle and how we could infact support several billion more with more efficient farming practices, but in terms of biodiversity there is effectively no sane argument that stands in the way of the notion that 8bn and rising humans are causing the 6th great mass extinction event in history

So from that perspective yeah, there really needs to be a lot fewer people in absolute terms

It is heading that way to be fair, I think birthrates are dropping a lot.

the origin of that population rise was from that last 50 years or so, as China, India etc grew as nations.

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