What the actual fuck is this! 
the sheer brazenness of these cunts.
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They can’t help themselves. They actually like formenting this culture war more.
Because it gives these 'lefty’s more clout easily. They actively seek out these kinds of meaningless issues to virtue signal about rather than shine a light on more important issues that other, braver people are fighting against.
These people commonly have a lot of disdain for the poor, but hide it with this PR nonsense.
Combine those qualities, they leave open goal after open goal for the right wing, who I don’t even think care as much about the ‘culture war’ issues than these 'lefty’s. Because they see it as such an easy way to drum support as the other side take leave of their senses, they would obviously spam that strategy.
(I’ll give you an example. There is a campaign now to legalise and normalise sex-work. Now obviously sex workers deserve rights, however I find it a bit depressing and a bad indictment to our society that this is becoming an increasing industry. This also disproportionately affects women.
So instead of trying to fix things like income inequality, these people want to make it easy for financially vulnerable women to become strippers and prostitutes. How is that looking out for women? It’s perverse and a lazy ‘solution’ that many people are horrified with.)
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Dangerous cunts to have running a country. Been said many times before but never been more obvious.
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I don’t personally really like the idea of sex work, I feel icky about it and unlike some I’ve know, I’ve never used such services and nor could I. I say this to be clear that it’s not something I’m really an advocate for. I don’t think its great, or empowering, or like any other job.
But I don’t think legalisation is a bad idea. Regulation and oversight in the industry would definitely be a good thing for the women involved and that’ll come with legalisation. Said regulation and oversight would make it harder for women and children to be trafficked and exploited in British brothels.
Keeping sex work illegal is worse for the people involved imo, so I can’t really agree that a push towards legalisation is harmful to women like you seem to think. Legalisation and regulation does not equate to promotion of the industry, at all.
Though I 100% acknowledge that there are people out there who are basically promoting it, saying its great and worthy of as much respect as more mainstream professions. Which I personally don’t agree with, so I can see your angle there. I don’t know that I have to “respect sex work” like many say.
But I’m not sure I’d conflate that with the idea of pushing for legalisation of the industry, with regulation following.
Hmm, I can see where you are coming from there.
I agree with you that we do need regulation in the industry. But I would be a bit dismayed if the only way to do that would be to legalise it.
I am wondering aloud if there are ways of putting in the regulation as you say, to protect sex workers, without legalising it.
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I can’t really see how regulation works without legalisation, because pimps already do their thing regardless of the law, so what kind of regulations could possibly exist that they would adhere to, when its easier to ignore regulations and guidance than it is legislation that comes with a custodial sentence if you defy it.
Sex work is one of the oldest professions going, prohibition factually does not work, there is no stopping people buying and selling sex. Prohibition just drives it underground and makes it easier for women, children (and some men) to be exploited. If its legal you can begin to work towards safe conditions, fair pay etc. When I hire someone at work I need to ascertain whether they have the right to work in the UK, it would essentially be impossible for me to employ someone who was trafficked from another country when all expenses and wages are on the books and HMRC etc are involved.
Genuine question, how do you introduce meaningful regulations to illegal enterprises or industries? How are they enforced and how is compliance ensured when the people involved are already not complying with legislation?
If we introduced regulations surrounding employment rights in the drug dealing industry, saying you couldn’t coerce minors into going country, or introduce regulations surrounding pay, what are the odds of those regulations being adhered to when the whole enterprise is illegal in the first place, when employing kids and making them go country to sell drugs is illegal in the first place?
That’s a good question and I don’t think I have an answer.
I’m wondering aloud if maybe you don’t legalise it but you don’t really enforce the breaches, but you do enforce laws you make around the regulation of the safety as you say.
I’m trying to think up an example.
I guess the closest thing to this is the way drug users get safe needles handed to them up here in Scotland, to inject. However injecting drugs is still illegal.
Policies with that kind of thing intent in mind would be my ideal.
I just think legalising it would send a message I don’t agree with.
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I don’t mean it in a cunty, personal way… but it’s at this point I think we have to ask ourselves what matters more: doing something substantial to protect these women and children or “sending the right message”? We’ve spent hundreds of years sending the right message about sex work and things like drugs, but it doesn’t protect those involved and it doesn’t eradicate the issues, not remotely.
Legalising something doesn’t equate to promoting it, sometimes legalisation or at least heavy decriminalisation is the pragmatic option. Not because we want to drive people into it or promote it, but because its the best way to reduce harm and ensure safety.
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I think fundamentally the principles on this argument are sound. However I do feel they get compromised a bit when places around the world promote it as part of a tourist attraction.
I think as a society a line needs drawing on this.
Not wanting to take away from your original point or draw you into an argument as such.
But the tourist attraction element only exists because its prohibited in most other countries?
Partly mate. Not exclusively.
Sex work is a very ugly thing. Well adjusted people with sound mental health don’t partake in those activities either as the punter or worker
Legalising it only codifies the moral decline we’re currently experiencing
There’s a Youtube channel called soft white underbelly that regularly interviews different types of people involved with sex work at different levels. The commonality involved in sex work is childhood truma and greed
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Amsterdam is visited by many people exclusively because there are establishments where they can legally buy and consume marijuana. Amsterdam would see far fewer of these specific people coming if they could do the same thing in their own country, in the city or town they live in. There are many reasons to visit Amsterdam besides weed, but many people choose that destination over a different European city exclusively for this reason. The weed tourism aspect would barely exist if it were legal everywhere. Las Vegas’ tourism would take a hit if gambling were legalised across the States because many (not all) go to Las Vegas for that specific reason.
I’m not sure I really want laws to be based on your moral standards though, because we’ve all got different moral views on a whole host of issues.
Plenty of people think that homosexuality is being promoted and that this is a sign of the moral decline of Western society, I’m quite glad that our laws aren’t based on those peoples moral objections to a particular sexual activity.
When homosexuality was legalised it didn’t equate to promotion, there weren’t government broadcasts calling on the men of England to abandon women and go out and fuck each other instead. That’d be promoting it, merely legalising something isn’t.
At the end of the day, sex work is still sexual activity between two consenting adults, the introduction of money to the equation doesn’t negate that, even if I personally don’t like it and would have no part in it. But it’s when it is illegal that it’s easier for people to be forced into this line of work against their will, not when it’s legal.
I think people dressing up like big cuddly bears and fucking each other is ugly. I think grown men wearing fucking diapers and having someone mother them for sexual gratification is ugly.
But my views on how ugly someone else’s method of sexual gratification is aren’t relevant when it involves consenting adults.
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Porn is just legalised sex work. I don’t think anyone would disagree that it’s a bad thing to have standards, rights and regulations when it comes to porn and then that leaves the authorities better placed to go after those who are operating outside of those boundaries (which of course still happens)
I have never understood why authorities don’t look at that model and apply it to other things like prostitution. Feels like there already exists a pretty decent framework to begin from there.
I think in Ireland we recently brought in stricter laws around the buying of sex. Everything I have read about this policy suggests that it drives the stuff even further underground and it actually seems to be a retrograde step.
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Fair argument on weed and gambling in Vegas but red light areas being promoted in s tacky manner is different.
If were trying to promote females being able to walk through parks safely by changing mindsets this isn’t a way forward.
Bottom line it’s initially about saftey I fully get but putting a tourist attraction on it is a problem for me.
Granted your original point was about saftey first and foremost.
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To be honest, I don’t think it is different. If prostitution were legal across the globe then places where it isn’t would not get as many sex tourists, as is the case with drugs and gambling. If it were legal everywhere then you wouldn’t see it promoted as a tourist attraction, because its widespread availability would utterly undermine the whole endeavour.
A foreign country basing its tourist advertising on the availability of alcohol wouldn’t entice me, because I don’t need to travel to a foreign country to get it. If I couldn’t get pizza in the UK I’d sure as shit travel abroad to somewhere where I could, but seeing as that isn’t the case, I wouldn’t travel somewhere specifically so I could have some pizza.
But really, if the idea is that it shouldn’t be promoted or advertised, then treat it like tobacco, which you aren’t allowed to advertise.
Any how, this was definitely a fun distraction from all the mopping, hoovering and dusting I’ve been doing for the past few hours. But now it’s my leisure time I’m going to stop devoting so much time and thought to discussing a topic I’m not hugely passionate about haha.
Great to have a non-emotional discussion about an issue without it getting heated though gents 
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It’s not a proper international break until it gets heated.
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Interesting point, you could replace “porn” with any illicit substance or act, where do you draw the line?
I don’t assume that you are in favour of legalising all drugs so long as there are rights and regulations in respect of it’s production and sale?
Wait till we get the crisp discussion going.
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