Semantics debate about what a 10 is

Choosing 1995 because it’s more or less when I started having opinions about football and it’s tidy a half-decade mark.

names to consider:

Keane (I’m not even fucking considering him but some might lol)
De Rossi
Thiago Alcántara
Yaya Touré
De Bruyne

(1. Diaby)
1a. Xavi
2. De Bruyne
3. Modric
4. Vieira
5. Pirlo
6. Kroos
7. Busquets
8. Seedorf
9. Redondo
10. Alonso
11. Fàbregas
12. Sneijder
13. Davids
14. Deco
15. Gerrard

*Lotthaus should be on the list but I really didn’t see enough of him to honestly put him on my list. Interested to see a list that can include him or Sammer in good faith, I just can’t.

Don’t think Nedved, Zidane, Riquelme, Kaka and Ballack should be in this list if you don’t include no10s like Ozil and the likes.

They played as 8s/10s in 3 man midfields, ie in a 4-3-3 not a 4-2-3-1 so I would include them, because otherwise it starts to be a question if you include Xavi, Lampard, Gerrard, Laudrup, Seedorf even, etc. etc.

Vieira’s the best on that list, Abou mi amigo.

4-2-3-1 wasn’t even a thing when 75% of this list were active footballers…how is that some sort of a criteria, mate? Doesn’t change the fact that he was a #10 with France/Real Madrid and outside midfielder with Juventus (Zidane).

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I’d say Kante and perhaps Matuidi deserve a shout

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Exactly, point is to eliminate recent 10s who couldn’t have really played in 4-3-3s or 4-4-2s of before. I don’t consider a diamond attacking midfielder nearly the same thing as a 4-2-3-1 attacking midfielder or a 10 in a 4-4-2, because in both they’re much more offensive and 10s than the other, too much to consider them centre midfielders. Zidane, Kaka, Nedved, Riquelme, Ballack all played centrally as the most attacking central midfielder, but they were distinctly not 2nd forwards. I think the distinction is pretty clear.

Iniesta I don’t include because he was only an 8 late on, most of his career he was a wide attacking midfielder. Totti I have that question, whether to include him.

Why would Totti be included in a list of greatest CMs?

Kaka also doesn’t belong on this list. And guys like Nedved, Zizou and so on may have played in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 but they are certainly not really CMs. I’d always consider them 10s- they existed long before the popularising of 4-2-3-1.

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Because he played as a CM under Enrique and much of his career, even if was an attacking CM. Like I said the other option is to make it a much stricter definition but then it becomes very murky whether Fàbregas, Lampard, Gerrard, Xavi, Laudrup etc. should be on the list.

What? Riquelme was actually blasted for being a lazy #10 / the Ozil before Ozil / much more offensive and Ozil played in a 4-4-2 in his Werder days…

Iniesta played behind Ronaldinho in Rijkaard’s 4-3-3…

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Totti was not a CM. Enrique stint at Roma lasted a season - to label Totti a CM is a very strange move. He was a striker, a number 10 and the old school “second striker”.

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lol, fine, we can include Özil, Iniesta, and Silva if you guys like…but I think of them as more modern attacking midfielders, who didn’t come as deep to influence the play as Riquelme, Kaka, Nedved, Zidane did, thus to me are more comparable to 2nd strikers or wide attacking midfielders like Figo or Ronaldinho than to 10s.

Indeed, and the list includes a lot of 10s or 8s who played as the highest in a 3 man midfield, depending on how you define these sort of things. Basically the idea was to include all players who played centrally in a 3 man midfield or a 4-4-2 or 5-3-2 without being part of the 2. That’s why I had a big doubt on Totti but not the other 3 I mention there.

God these threads…

I understand how they could be quite tiresome for someone who doesn’t really know anything outside of the PL and has consistently said ridiculous things about other domestic leagues, I feel you Trioncito. :wink:

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Wesley Sneijder

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Trueee. Added.

Meh. 6/10

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I was about to be a bit more savage and maybe up my rating but contained myself cause I like you. :kissing_heart:

Awww :hugs:

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Matthias Sammer