The poorer a country gets, the more social problems there tends to be.
If the gap between the rich and the poor continues to expand - you’re going to have more problems up & down the country.
You don’t need immigration to prove that point.
In my 20 years of going to Islington, the only aggression or unpleasantness I’ve encountered has been from white, British people.
3 Likes
If you want to complain about immigration and you have no mention of boriss role in this then you are dumb and a symbol of the decline in intelligence and education standards of this country. what a failure of analytical skills
I…actually don’t fully agree with this. Many parts of the UK historically weren’t exactly swimming in wealth back then but the community spirit was high and people were happier.
Wealth is a factor but in reality UK ran on a faulty philosophy in part due to the ideology of political leadership. The personal wealth in exchange for embracing individualism never materialised. (or rather, ended abruptly in 2008). The social contract is broken. Now we have some of the worse aspects of it: Littering on streets (because who gives a shite). People crying or demanding a more heartless society e.g complaining about their money going to welfare (while simultaneously bemoaning we don’t take care of our homeless bla bla bla). Amongst other things.
4 Likes
That last part always infuriates me - “we need to look after our own first.” A line you hear come out of the mouths of people who absolutely do not want to look after our own either.
2 Likes
I think social problems are often linked to a lack of hope.
You keep punching down on communities and deprive good people of opportunities, disenfranchisement takes over and apathy towards the law follows. And by communities I’m talking literally and not necessarily groups of migrants, religions or cultural groups,
What Reform has done is successfully pivot from blaming all our problems on the EU (turns out it wasn’t EU membership that was causing the decline of the UK) on to the next easiest constituency to blame; migrants. And those who are desperate to blame their broken dreams on anyone but themselves unquestioningly gobble up everything the tax avoiding, foreigner employing, Eton Mess Nigel Farage vomits-out through his kipper-colour teeth.
I know this for a fact, most of my relatives watch Gammon Breaking News for their daily dose of people to hate on.
Pastor and poet Martin Niemöller explains the blame process in his poem “First They Came”. Particularly relevant as we watch Trumptown Riots caused by ICE in the US.
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
1 Like
Objectively speaking this is utterly insane. We talk about lack of community spirit and togetherness, but community spirit is build upon centuries of shared tradition, culture, attitudes and feeling of belonging. In the space of one generation entire history of london as a city has been flipped on its head. Now replicate that across every major city (some our further along then others) and theres no just possible way the UK isnt going to be a country which becomes more divided, more hostile between itself, more guarded among each other with rapidly diverging views on whats best for the country.
There is no brake there is no target. It’s simply immigration is good and we need it. But where does it stop? When every single city is 80% foreign? When 50% of the country is foregein? 80%? 100%?
The left are desperate to shift the blame for social cohesion onto billionaires or politicians and they’re right they are fucking us. But you cant put a price on national pride and heritage, feeling of belonging but your every day person can see the cultural change the country is going through and quite simply are scared of it. And nobody is doing anything to stop it.
2 Likes
I have a more expansive general point about this which I might say later when I wake up, but I’ll quickly say two things:
First, let’s direct some of that anger at the right, they’ve won 3424972 elections on reducing immigration and didn’t do it 3424972 times. (I mean there’s Starmer also but whatever he believes changes depending on the weather so…) In fact they used Brexit not to gatekeep but to open the UK to even more of the world with one of the most badly (depending on perspective, to me it was obviously intentional) implemented immigration system designed to get in as many people in the shortest amount of time.
Secondly, I am a strong believer in heritage and belonging even for white people. But I have to say as a descendant of Jamaica. There isn’t many of us (or actual Jamaicans) compared to other ethnic groups around the world (Well Jamaican isn’t an ethnicity but you know what I mean) yet still exists a clear cut identifiable culture in the diaspora. If British culture is dying despite there being 50million odd White Britons the first question that should be asked before anything else is “Why do we suck at this”.
1 Like
You’ve got to stop consuming alt right slop on X dude.
You’re last two post on this thread have regurgitated white supremacist (incorrect) framing of data.
1 Like
Flip the switch on your Jamaica example. What would the reaction be if over the last few decades. The local population of Kingston dropped from being 90% local To 80% white European? Not just Kingston but your second largest city as well. public housing in your two biggest cities was now 80% non local. The mayor of Kingston was now a white European. Your sitting president was now an American whose family moved from New York?
Do you think everybody would be silent on this? Do you think there would be zero talks about marginalisation of Jamaican heritage in its own country? Nobody would be talking about white people colonising Jamaica?
Oh man you should’ve done a little bit of research before that example…
Former PM:
Current leader of the opposition:
White Jamaicans are considered just as Jamaican just as Black Jamaicans (who have European ancestry anyway). The only people who don’t believe that have never stopped foot in the country and probably thinks dumb things like everyone smokes weed.
Now your question about demographics. Guyana and Trinidad are near 50/50 African/Indians in terms of racial groups so it already exists.
Now to answer your question in good faith. It’s possible, although I think the locals would have a bigger problem being pushed out of their community than the race of the person whos benefitting. Haitians that arrive in the country illegally get deported. Haitians that commit crimes are swiftly ejected. Even when it comes to tourism Black Americans find out very quickly they don’t get special privileges and just can’t disrespect people over there.
That said I don’t even understand your question in response to my post anyway.
The UK has voted to reduce immigration countless times, the top polling party wants mass deportations. What is this ‘silence’ you’re on about? Politics is failing you here. Not the lack of conversation.
2 Likes
I guess that’s what you get for writing a message on your phone while walking around the shop waiting for your wife to finish browsing clothes. I would have googled some stuff before making false equivalences.
The point I was making though was Jamaica isn’t experiencing the same change in demographics in its biggest cities such is happening in the UK. And it appears to be doing a lot of what we lack with regards to tighter controls. I was more fixated on your last sentence.
Didnt take away that most of your post was more answering the political question on left and right. I wasnt really referring to any political party but more a general leftist view of pro immigration. But i I do agree with you on your comments about the right as political parties btw they have failed the people that voted them in.
I’d say also think overall politics in the west has been on an overall shift to the left which means “the right” is far less conservative than it used to be. Certainly dosnt compare to the past or even conservative values in other countries particularly east Asia. It’s mostly rhetoric here vs any meaningful action.
“but community spirit is build upon centuries of shared tradition, culture, attitudes and feeling of belonging” @GUNNER89 Bollocks does it take “centuries” to build a community spirit.
I’m lucky to live in a fantastic community here in Essex, I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else in the UK (apart from Highbury Square maybe). There isn’t a single member of my community that’s centuries old. Most of us are in our 50’s at most. 100 years ago this was a fishing and boat building community, now it’s an arty, cosmopolitan island in a sea of Gammons.
The community here today is unrecognisable from that of 50 years ago let alone a century. Things change, people find like-minded people in pubs and at the many events we put on every year. Everyone’s proud to live here, regardless of age, race, origin, religion or politics.
Other nearby villages are more, ahem, Anglo-Saxon, the houses are cheaper there because fuck-all of any interest happens in them. Well, not since a bunch of hippies invaded Weeley for a music festival in 1971. Some of them came to my village and never left.
3 Likes
@Gunnerpr Let’s be more productive. What do you think should happen? Denmark’s parallel societies law was lazily floated about as an idea sometime ago in the UK. I personally think the idea sucks arse but maybe you’re a fan of it?
Another strong policy from Denmark. If you’re a foreign national and you commit a crime worth a 1 year prison sentence, immediate deportation. No ifs not buts. Wish they’d apply it retroactively.
1 Like
I’ve always believed that any foreign national guilty of a crime that deserves a custodial sentence should be deported. I cannot for the life of me understand why that isn’t the case.
It’s a total waste of taxpayers money to house someone in our already overcrowded prisons who isn’t even a British citizen.
I also think if you’re a naturalised citizen and you get convicted of a serious crime you should have your citizenship revoked and be deported.
4 Likes
Yeah it really shouldn’t be as controversial a policy as it is, it seems pretty reasonable.
Slightly different policy/case but I mean honestly, look at this absolute nonsense as well - his unspent conviction in Bangladesh should absolutely NOT be our problem.
I’d be willing to do this if sentences were enforced in a deportee country.
It doesn’t seem right that someone who commits a serious enough offence to warrant conviction and a custodial sentence escapes punishment and get to walk free in their home country.
I’d radically alter the prison experience in the UK tbh
1 Like
So Stupid Lowe’s Restore Party are set to dilute the right-wing vote further.
Excellent.
Plenty of votes to share with the Tories, Reform and Robinson’s lot “The Forth Reich” or whatever they’re called.