Labour are in a mess here they never recovered losing to the SNP in 2007 they are still gonna be a distant 3rd in the election in May if the polling is correct, Reform will just replace the Tories in 2nd
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Incidentally, Starmer should absolutely have to go over this.
Why did he appoint Mandelson in the first place? Because he was in the seedy little club along with Trump and Starmer thought that would help him with America.
GTFO.
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Is something going on with Streeting tonight?
Nothing has ever gone on with that vacuum of human personality 
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I’ve hesitated to respond, as I’m conscious I will likely be engulfed with a tirade of abuse, but I get the feeling that those calling for Starmer to resign, are people who don’t like him and just want him to go, as opposed to getting him to resign because of the issue at hand.
There were lots of people at the time who thought it was a good appointment. Obviously, this was not the case and he has to take responsibility for that, but the key for me is what was known at the time. If more was known at the time of the appointment, and he has lied about that, then that’s a different matter. But based on what he has said, and the fact he sacked him when the information came to light, I do have some sympathy with his position.
Sarwar’s intervention earlier today seemed very opportunistic and almost desperate. I don’t follow Scottish politics closely, but from what @Calum said above, they seem a long way off from winning the election in May, so by coming out and saying what he did, he can blame the loss on Starmer and the UK Government, rather than his own campaign.
For me this yet again highlights why we need much stricter standards for Parliament. For instance, I still don’t understand why it is commonplace for MPs to have second jobs. Whatever happens, something good has to come out of all this mess.
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Complaining about No10 “briefings” against him and selective releasing of texts to the media get ahead of any negative association with Mandelson. The texts he released just happen to be implicitly critical of Starmer’s handling of key issues such as Gaza and economy.
Its a smart move if you’re gunning to be PM, which Wes really desperately wants to be. He thinks he’s really savvy but this type of behaviour is really slimy and doesn’t inspire confidence within the party, it reminds me of Sunak Boris all over again.
I think people are genuinely sick of the drama, the games and the media frenzy.
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Streeting blatantly doesn’t have the temperament to be PM.
Toys out the pram when he doesn’t get his way.
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Should Starmer resign, based on his whole record as PM?
- Yes
- No
0
voters
Is the Mandleson matter by itself enough cause for ANY PM to resign?
- Yes
- No
0
voters
It’s difficult because I’m partially swayed by the arguments that some people have made about not wanting another Tory run with lots of backstabbing and deceit.
But I also don’t think Labour stand any chance of winning an election under Starmer. I think he is absolutely the most unpopular PM that we’ve had in my lifetime. I don’t see any support for him anywhere.
Whilst I absolutely understand that Mandelson lied to him I think it’s a catastrophic error to have appointed someone who:
A) failed in government previously
B) had links to Epstein - regardless of if you knew the extent of them
I think Starmer was so focused on sucking up to Trump and he has to pay for that. It goes without saying that he has paid the price for being a coward. He’s tried to appease the right with his immigration rhetoric, he’s tried to appease Trump and been a coward doing so. He’s also lost a significant portion of the London Muslim vote with his Gaza stance and recognising Palestine was his way of trying to reverse that. By then the damage has been done.
I think he’s been a failure.
I don’t see any economic growth, I don’t see any real plan and I don’t see someone who is capable of leading.
But who replaces him?
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My only issue with going would be who takes over?
There’s no-one in the Labour Party that are actually better suited to leading.
The next PM would last an even shorter tenure.
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It’s a sad state of affairs in this country though. After 14 years of having the political, economic and social fabric of this country destroyed by the conservative government. We’ve now inherited a government who have no idea what to do and seem to have no plan.
It’s been quite sad to see the state of the decline over the last 20 years. I don’t think we ever recovered financially from the market crash in 08 and I think the pandemic absolutely destroyed anything that was left of this country.
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It can’t be ignored that while Starmer didn’t have the information that is available now, he certainly had a lot more information than the general public about whether appointing Mandleson was appropriate. And even based on what was out there, it was clearly a massive risk. And it’s a risk that has backfired, and as you say @SRCJJ, he simply has to pay the price for that. A PM has to get that kind of judgement call right.
And I say this as someone who has previously said managing Trump was the one area I was prepared to give Starmer some credit. There were elements of that strategy that did protect the UK economy. And I don’t really blame him for the fact that that has fallen apart a bit because Trump is clearly insane, even if Starmer’s response should have been stronger.
But that strategy could have been accomplished without sending Trump an ambassador who was also in the seedy rich men’s club.
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That’s what happens when you stop reading @The_Invincibles’s posts
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It was a risk he didn’t even need to take. We had an ambassador who was, by all accounts, good at her job and quite popular in Washington.
He’s made a rod for his own back on this one. Completely avoidable, yet he actively chose to put Mandelson in place, the man who twice had to resign for dodgy financial situations and was already known to be a pal of the world’s most notorious nonce.
Only reason he isn’t gone imo is because MPs want him to stick around until May to take the heat for the inevitable crushing defeat coming Labour’s way, as it would be pretty stupid to put your preferred new PM in place just to take the flak for a huge defeat.
Starmer isn’t making it past the summer.
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I think you’re right about May. But maybe Labour should consider that having Starmer in place potentially when Mandleson is arrested or charged could very well accelerate the severity of their defeats in these and future elections. At least a new PM can say it was the decision of the previous guy to appoint him.
Yeah I think you’re right.
It’s a shame because I was quite optimistic about Labour coming in with a breath of fresh air in 2024 and now it’s just a shit show.
Who do we think might win a leadership contest?
Rayner is quite popular in the party and appeals to more of a left leaning crowd right?
Don’t see Lammy or Mahmoud coming close, maybe Miliband as a “steady eddy” type bet.
It’d be easy to throw it all on Starmer, but I haven’t been too impressed with Labour as a whole. They’ve been lurching from one problem to another. If it’s not Mandelson you got all the other folks who were compromised in one way or another. Rayner, Siddiq, Ali. That guy that had people living in moldy homes. Reeves using the misogyny card to defend her decisions.
Again repeating myself but the attitude around Lord Alli’s donations told me everything I needed to know.
Adults back in the room I guess. Can’t wait for election time to hear how ‘sensible’ thess types supposedly are.
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This is a definite weakness of their kind of centrist, cautious politics. It means there is no real purpose or direction, certainly not of the kind the public can see and buy into.
They come across as a party who want to be in power for the sake of being in power. They don’t come across as having a vision for the country. And when you’re facing populist and popular right wing nationalists as they are, that’s going to cost them.
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Here’s hoping he doesn’t see the spring!