No, they sing ¿ qué Jude ?
It’s funny because in German “Hey Jude” means Hey Jew so I don’t think Girouds song would really have taken off in Germany lol
3 Likes
Nah, glorified tap-in merchant, average footballer.
probably you are I were watching Xhaka in another universe, David
1 Like
Haven’t followed the prior conversation but I never mentioned anything about Havertz. For what it’s worth, Havertz has quite clearly been instructed to operate differently to the way Xhaka was asked to play there. Much of what you’ve said there about Xhaka is essential midfield play. Covering vacated spaces and playing a function in a well oiled is not being a passenger. Xhaka played in the 8 for around 18 months and proved a key figure in a very good Arsenal team. Seems like an attempt to elevate Havertz at Xhaka’s expense?
Idk. I can think of a time when the Germans would have really enjoyed yelling that en masse.
1 Like
David saw that, you saw that, I saw that, but some just ingore the fact that Kai and Granit are operating in different ways, and most likely Arteta gave them different instructions.
Isn’t it the opposite? Some attempted to elevate Xhaka’s one good season and write off Kai’s performance in 10 games?
1 Like
Who’s ignoring it?
If we go back to last season when Arteta was attempting to make the Vieira for Xhaka substitution a thing, the reasonable conclusion is that Arteta wanted a more mobile, more technically sound and more attacking player in that position.
So if Havertz was brought in to be more mobile, more technically sound and more attacking, we haven’t seen it yet.
If he was brought in to just do what Xhaka did, a lot of off ball stuff, dropping into left back, hard running, it’s a really weird choice because that’s not been his game. It wasn’t his game in Germany and certainly not at Chelsea.
Has he been a disaster here so far? Of course not. He’s not scoring own goals, tripping over his own feet and etc. It’s not Antony levels of flop. But he’s certainly not made that position his own yet. Maybe it will take time and he’ll become this all action left eight and I’ll look like a huge idiot. I’d love it if he suddenly turned it on. But if he doesn’t, and what we’re left with is an expensive rotation option, it’s a disappointment because we’re still going to have to figure out that left eight position and replace Partey next summer.
1 Like
did Arteta tell you that?
you guys know what Arteta wants from Kai?
we are 2 points off the top, we are undefeated, and we are 3rd in goals scored.
you take Kai away from the equation, our game play and tactics are pretty much the same, not that we play in another gear or so when Kai is off. So whoever said Kai was slowing down our attacking or affecting our free style, fast flowing game were pure bullshit.
Ode is off form, Saka is off, same to Martinelli and Jesus…
our team is not yet clicking but we are still doing good this season, I don’t understand why there are so much whining and complaining.
We are not on Chelsea level, not even close to United’s level.
Basically on every topic there would be someone suggested that we better spend the money on somewhere else… just sick.
Those people who said they knew it was not going to work and wrote off Kai, can simply apply for some coaching/scouting job, if they are really that knowledgeable.
Maybe I should just chip in and start saying, we should get rid of Martinelli to get Mbappe, get rid of Ode to buy Bellingham, get rid of Jesus… get rid of Partey, get rid of this and that. Get rid of Arteta to hire Pep.
There is always someone better out there.
1 Like
No, but you don’t either. You suggested above that Havertz was being instructed to play differently than Xhaka. You can’t argue it both ways. If you’re going to speculate that he’s getting different instructions, I can speculate based on substitution patterns last season that Arteta wanted someone more attacking in that role.
There’s complaints about Havertz because we spent a lot of money on him and he’s not scoring or assisting. I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to handle. Nobody’s saying he’s shit, or that he’s got he feet on backwards, this isn’t a case of Willian phoning it in or Runnarson being a total miss on the scouting side. The guy has plenty of good attributes. I think he’s been good up front and would rather see him there. But it’s not happening right now in midfield.
And that whole argument of “oh if you’re criticizing Havertz, give me a name of someone else” is just nonsense. I’m not a scout, none of us are scouts, but you don’t have to be a scout to criticize a player’s contribution or performances. He’s not done enough here yet. I’m not sure why you’re so pressed on defending him.
1 Like
I am not saying Kai played great at least.
you said it is a lot of money, how much is a lot?
we were linked to Caicedo and Lavia the whole summer and one was 115m and the other was 50m (close to?).
The minimum of market is 50m.
So, paying 65 is really a lot?
I think this is hard for you guys to understand that 65m is not a lot these days.
65m is not peanuts, but not as a huge amount as you guys quoted.
He is not done here, and in fact he only played 10 games.
If you guys are not specialist, or some premier scouts here… you guys have what in your pockets to write off someone who played only 10 games here?
Fair criticism is good, but criticizing a player from game one to game 10?
when you brough up Willan, that guy was like 36 years old, came to the summer camp with a huge belly, and compare him to a 24 year old physically fit Havertz?
Willian was a failed project here, but he still had some good games for Fulham and something left in his tank. There was some other reasons why it did not work out here.
A proper comparison to Kai?
He’s only played x amount of games, so any judgment (good or bad) is based on that sample - by definition. We all extrapolate based on the evidence we have. It seems odd to be so defensive when some of us criticize his play or expect more. I hope he becomes a smashing success here, but between his time at Chelsea and the time with us so far, it’s pretty underwhelming if I’m honest.
1 Like
I have no right to suggest people how to comment or judge a player, BUT, at least I find fairness to use the word “underwhelming” 
If people just Kai (simply) on his price tag and performance, I think “underwhelming” is a fair comment.
That’s what most of the criticism on here has been. He’s been underwhelming relative to what was expected and/or some variation of “eh maybe he’s just a rotation player at best” which is a lot of money to spend on a rotation player.
It’s not “over” for him at Arsenal. Not least because we’re definitely stuck with him at that price tag. Arteta will find a way to use him because Arteta was the one who wanted him. I think it’s notable that he was dropped and frankly, I think it’s a good thing. We don’t want a situation where he’s trying to force a player he wanted into a position where there may be other solutions.
Maybe it’s my fault for expecting too much. I certainly talked myself into how it could work with him at the left eight but it’s not working right now. If it starts to work, I’ll be the first one to give him his flowers. If I can find it in my heart to tip my cap to Jorghino of all people, I can do it for Havertz.
1 Like
1 Like
Yeah for the most part. It’s definitely not like my unhinged criticism of Jorginho.
I think it’s fair to say Arteta also expects more from Havertz @ronniec, tipping that’s the reason he’s currently in and out of the starting side and hasn’t locked down the no 8 position.
Kai will be an interesting case for a very long time.
We have seen his capability before… not that his youth playing days was shit…
Actually he was great as a kid, as a teenager.
Wasn’t like he does not have the technique. In fact, he possess a lot of skill basically.
Just after 3 shit season with Chelsea… seems like he lost everything.
Not just him, Werner and Mount also lost it.
Some mentioned that he had another growth burst after leaving Leverkusen… so he had problems controlling his movement.
Some said he lost his confidence…
If he stopped playing for three seasons, it makes sense.
Even it was shit, he kept playing for Chelsea and German NT.
He just lost it, and damaged.
Hope Arteta has an alternate plan for him, to make a damaged goods to a quality refurbished one.
2 Likes
Bellingham is a good player
1 Like
Wrong topic!
2 Likes