They need to grow a pair
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I feel like thereâs a clear difference between shouting âthatâs a corner refâ from wherever you are on the pitch and full on getting in the face/space of the ref amd shouting directly at him.
Football fans seem to have this odd aversion to punishing disrespectful and unnecessary behaviour towards officials lol
Because the refs are wank and Iâm all for players screaming at them. Do they need a kiss and a tummy rub after the game to feel better?
I also love a good scrap between players themselves. If everyoneâs getting booked all the time thereâll be none of either.
Respecting officials should be a basic element of the game regardless of quality. The standard of refereeing should be addressed in different ways than players screaming at them.
Taking action over dissent isnât about making sure the refs donât feel sad, itâs about maintaining decent standards and ensuring there is a platform for the referee to do a good job.
Not everything has to be directly linked. The refs can do better at their job and the players can also stop being cunts.
I get that your view is from the angle of an emotionally-invested fan but itâs obviously not practical as a serious approach to anything.
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OK so let me ask you this, do you think dissent has gotten worse over the last 30 years? Or do we just talk about it more? Or has it always been a huge issue you think needed solving?
If you want more respect for referees there are plenty of ways to start helping them earn it. Microphones and explaining key decisions on the spot will do wonders for both players and fans understanding. Not that they will still necessarily agree with the decision, nor will it be a magic bullet, but itâd certainly help more than giving refs more power to mask their shit decisions.
And itâs not about being an emotionally invested fan just annoyed at reffing standards tbh, I see more and more passion being stripped from the game (canât celebrate a big win, VAR ruining goal moments, refs warning players for showboating). Being frustrated at a decision and having a momentary go at the ref is part of the game, refs also know that when they sign up for the job.
Always been a big issue for me, Iâve brought this up numerous times on this forum.
Doesnât seem to be an issue in rugby, where the players are actually tough, but soccer players, most of whom are not tough, seem to be unable to display any common decency.
I canât think of any other sport that I follow where the refs get the kind of treatment from players that they do in football. Try shouting in the face of a ref in the NBA, instant technical foul at a minimum. Do it in rugby, 10 minutes on the sideline.
The whole âthey need to earn itâ mentality is impractical and is emotional fan talk. The game needs standards to be set and one of them should be respecting officials.
As above, showing some emotion at a decision is different to shouting in the refs face or grabbing him or crowding him aggressively etc as we see regularly in the prem.
It doesnât have to be a related thing as you sort of imply. Refereeing standards can improve and so can player conduct. It doesnât require each one to improve at the same rate to justify the other.
The stuff about passion I agree with, but it doesnât really have anything to do with general disrespect of officials.
I agree with Bavin, but I believe, if a team set out with a good and positive conduct towards match officials, they would be at a major disadvantage to an opponent that has a Man Utd vs Andy DâUrso approach.
Well then our viewpoints just start from drastically different positions. For me itâs an act of passion from the players and it occurs more frequently the more shit decisions are given or perceived to be given, so they are tied and earned in my book.
I also just fundamentally donât see a major problem with it, agree with you actually that itâs nothing new so Iâm glad you said that, but again I havenât had a problem with it for the last 20-30 years either.
Donât really care what they do in rugby, they also use video technology much better and the game is at a completely different pace (largely boring imo). Comparing to rugby is pointless anyway, football as a sport has far more hooliganism, theyâre just not the same and no guarantee the same measures would work, look at VAR lol.
You really want Neymar getting booked (or now sin binned) for doing a rainbow flick and then being pissed off when the ref warns him for it? Or he should just go âOK sorry almighty ref sir I wonât do any skills, thanks for your kind warning and cooperationâ.
Definitely. The starting point should be respect and in fact it is on the surface with the handshakes etc but it only takes something as insignificant as a perceived wrong call on a throw in for that to go out the window.
Did this actually happen?
Yes, few years ago against Montpellier I believe.
Please donât chop the getting annoyed about it but though - Iâm not trying to hide he got booked for the resulting dissent, but he shouldnât have even been warned for a skill to then be annoyed about.
I wasnât chopping anything. I was asking a question cos Iâd never heard of this.
And yea, youâve probably found the most ridiculous example possible there to be fair and I doubt anyone is going to agree that refs should be making decisions like that. The respect thing absolutely works both ways of course.
Thatâs fine but you know how these things go, someone could pop in later acting like Iâve not been clear so just wanted to reiterate once I saw where you stopped the quote. Wasnât having a go.
And of course I picked a ridiculous example to suit my point 
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No I wouldnât want players getting booked for doing things that are legal lol
I also donât think a history of hooliganism really justifies any kind of disrespectful behaviour by players towards referees. These are highly paid professionals, not a bunch of drunk goons off the street.
I personally donât think chasing the ref around, grabbing at him, shouting in the face of the ref is just down to passion. Itâs also disrespect. Regardless, something done out of passion isnât automatically justified.
The point about other sports is that they show you can have a game and have a base level of respect for officials. Basketball moves at a faster pace than football and yet no antics there like we have in football.
The standard of refereeing can improve and so can the standard of player conduct.
Thatâs all fine but for me itâs part of this game and I like it 
The main thing is, I think it naturally improves to a standard Iâm happy to accept with better quality of refereeing and you think both angles need to be tackled independently.
OK, Iâve just randomly came across a show about the last weeks games and officiating, and they were disucssing a very very controversial penalty awarded to Newcastle against Bournemouth.
They have aired the whole VAR conversation which is super interesting and made a very surprising and complex decision in the end⌠For me su horribly wrong one.
I canât see the videos on this site, I hope the conversation is available here.
Anyway you have the pen here tooâŚ
For me itâs crazy how they CONSTRUCTED the pen for Newcastle.
So just because the Bournemouth defender was pulling Sharâs shirt and did make a foul it cancels/erases his clear offside position?
How in the world?? If there wasnât a foul and he gets the ball itâs off. How can the foul have the âsupremacyâ over the offside here?
I simply canât wrap my head around it.
Webb says Schar maybe wouldnât get the ball, maybe Botman would get it and shot, and the Shar maybe gets a chance for a rebound but doesnât have it because of the foulâŚ
WTF??
Where is he going with that? To say that was a stretch is a huge understatement. What rebounds⌠The guy was in a clear offside while the ball was played in an area very near towards him. Every time Iâve watched a game before, thatâs a stonewall offside, it cancels everything after that.
How in the world can you award Schar with a penalty while he was in a clear offside in that same one action? Webb is constructing a possible another action a rebound that doesnât exist to justify the call⌠Absolutely nuts.
Awarding a player with a pen, while being in a VAR CONFIRMED offside position basically equals awarding him with a goal. What have we just witnessed here??
Obviously I donât care about Bournemouth getting robbed here and this exact case, but this is just an example of how they think, operate and make desisions and shows they can construct any decision they want.
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From the BBC site
â84â. Booking - Adam Smith (Bournemouth) is shown the yellow card for a bad foul.â
It was a perfectly good tackle. Defenders would be chuffed with it. And some Burnley fans hoping for a red. Nonsense.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1764281057073918411
âMonumental errorâ
The narrative about this is wild to me. Theyâre making it as if thatâs why Liverpool won which is nonsense. The goal cane minutes later.
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So Tierney punishment for not knowing the laws of the game (and dropping the ball in Liverpools favour) is this weekend he doesnt get to ref any games BUT is instead put in VAR for the Arsenal vs Brentford gameâŚ
And Iâm sure he gives less than some fraction of a fuck about that.