Diego Simeone


#21

I think you do a disservice to Simeone’s team tbh. They’re the truest soldiers of anything pro-football. They have proven there is an answer to the elite ways. I understand where you’re coming from to an extent, but Atletico have demonstrated their own beautiful-cohesive-intelligent-committed-energetic-giant slaying brand of football. They’re one of the most interesting teams in the world for what remarkable work they are doing and for what they have accomplished thus far given the limitations they have. Simeone is exemplary. It doesn’t matter how many Barca and Bayern enthusiasts talk about beautiful passing football, the blistering incisiveness of the old AC Milan, the old Arsenal and the likes of Atletico Madrid and Juventus are every bit as special for the sport. If he managed Arsenal and we kept it tight and organised whilst efficiently slicing through teams like butter, we would be fucking elated. He would probably attract some top players too, like Griezmann, Godin and Koke.


#22

I would dearly love for this to happen.


#23

You could group in 10-12 Real Madrid in this too. There was always a debate here as to what was more aesthetically pleasing, Madrid’s lightning fast counters and brutal end product, or Barça’s play. But when Mourinho’s Madrid, no matter how talented it was, and obviously it was terribly talented, faced Pep, or even other managers with a philosophy to play on the front foot, the dynamic was clear to see. As it is when Simeone’s club faces teams like this.

This isn’t me saying Simeone’s football is dire and anti-football. No. I’m saying you either have a real philosophy to play on the front foot and win with the ball or you don’t. Simeone doesn’t. That’s nothing against him. I totally agree about what a fantastic manager he is, and I don’t disagree that his team can play very nice attacking football at times, just as Mourinho’s teams could at times.

What I’m saying is that I think this club has become associated with a certain way of playing, a certain set of ideals, and we should carry those on. To not do so would be spoiling one of the biggest gifts Wenger gave to this club.


#24

Im more about finding who I think is the best chance of winning us major trophies as to who I want appointed as our next manager.


#25

Is Simeone really the best manager to offer us the greatest chance to win major trophies? imo, no

The type of football he wants to play and the mentality required from the players to execute it successfully and consistently is not something that can be implemented over night. Simeone is a very drastic change to what we currently are, not sure how long we’d be in ‘transition’ for if he did come but you can pretty much write off the first 2/3 season under him.

I don’t think it’s possible to replicate what Simeone has done at Atletico at a club like Arsenal. I think Simeone thrives in a certain environment and his methods just don’t translate to us. I can see him going somewhere like Inter Milan tbh, Inter is more in line with his ideals and their current position gives him the ability to build without pressure and expectation.

If we’re looking at someone who can build on Wenger, take the club forward and give us the best chance of competing straight away. We have to bring in someone who can make good use of the existing squad who are already familiar with a certain style and way of playing.


#26

Simeone cannot only manage one way he does so at Atletico because financially they are leagues behind Barca and Real and if you’re going to play open football against teams like them you’ll be ripped apart. Also the methods he employs clearly work at Atletico.

Some need to realise he didn’t always manage in this way, in fact earlier in his career his teams were both more attack oriented as well as open.

I also think you’re assertion that he can’t give us the best chance of competing straight away and that we need someone who can make good use of a style they’re familiar with is false. What style are you referring to exactly? We don’t really have an identity anymore and perhaps this “familar” style is one of the biggest problems anyway. Simeone would be perfectly fine managing a club like Arsenal, you give the likes of Wenger too much credit.

You assume that Simoene would need to replicate what he did at Atletico here when he doesn’t have to, he’d merely have to organise the team especially the defence in a way that they are a cohesive unit front to back with AND without the ball. Add in having no favourites, being able to genuinely inspire the team and also knowing you can be dropped no matter who you are and he could be definitely be a success.


#27

Well said. My thoughts exactly, but sadly it is futile. Zero chance we get him regardless.


#28

Well the reason Simeone’s name is being mentioned is solely because of his work and style at Atletico. We’ve only ever seen him manage one way. Where’s the evidence that he’d change his style if he move to a club like Arsenal? Or if he’d be good at adopting different tactics at top level english football?

This is a grey area for me which only adds doubt to him being a contender for Arsenal manager. There are other managers out there who you know what to expect as soon as they come in.

I’m not sure how much evidence we can draw from his time in Argentina in evaluating him now. It was quite a long time ago and South America is a completely different footballing world. I haven’t really seen anybody cite anything from his time in Argentina as a major reason to hire him.

Where did I say his methods don’t work for Atletico? Just because they work for Atletico doesn’t mean it can be easily translated to Arsenal. Atletico and Arsenal are nothing alike in terms of mentality, board, values, fans, club culture, expectations, existing playing staff and ambitions.

[quote=“Darkseid, post:26, topic:691”]
What style are you referring to exactly? We don’t really have an identity anymore and perhaps this “familar” style is one of the biggest problems anyway.[/quote]

There isn’t really a specify style but there’s a broad expectation for Arsenal, style wise, to always be on the front foot and proactive in terms controlling matches rather than reactive to the opposition. Gazidis talked about maintaining a particular brand of football post AW that bore a close resemblance to the best of Wenger.

That’s just an assumption really but I feel lot of people underestimate how difficult the Arsenal job will be post Wenger tbh especially now that the league is more competitive than ever. Wenger does deserve alot of credit, he’ll leave a very stable club after he leaves.

You make it sound so simple and you put too much emphasis on defence, which isn’t really a major problem imo. Over the last couple of seasons it been clear we’ve lacked a precise attacking system and it been hindering us. From GK to striker Wenger’s ‘freeform’ football seems outdated and non effective at the very top level. I’d rather we brought someone who can unlock the team’s offensive potential


#29

[quote=“sevchenko, post:28, topic:691, full:true”]

Well the reason Simeone’s name is being mentioned is solely because of his work and style at Atletico. We’ve only ever seen him manage one way. Where’s the evidence that he’d change his style if he move to a club like Arsenal? Or if he’d be good at adopting different tactics at top level english football?

This is a grey area for me which only adds doubt to him being a contender for Arsenal manager. There are other managers out there who you know what to expect as soon as they come in.[/quote]
You’re putting too much stock in the PL he’s hardly going to come in and bench Ozil playing 4-4-2 is he? He’s no fool and it’s more than likely he will adapt to what he has just like be did at Atletico.

The point was that he has been able to change his style before so why not now that he’s an even better manager?

What I meant was that he uses those methods because they clearly work. As for the differences in the clubs Atletico could easily be said to have more ambition that us. I don’t see those other factors being a hindrance either.

[quote]

There isn’t really a specify style but there’s a broad expectation for Arsenal, style wise, to always be on the front foot and proactive in terms controlling matches rather than reactive to the opposition. Gazidis talked about maintaining a particular brand of football post AW that bore a close resemblance to the best of Wenger.[/quote]
Simeone will not make Arsenal play exactly like Atletico, this style aspect is not as significant as you think.

[quote]

That’s just an assumption really but I feel lot of people underestimate how difficult the Arsenal job will be post Wenger tbh especially now that the league is more competitive than ever. Wenger does deserve alot of credit, he’ll leave a very stable club after he leaves.[/quote]
Another manager would get a lot more out of this team that’s for sure and that’s enough. Wenger is well past it.

Thats because it is simple, the whole world has known our issues and deficiencies for years and only just in the last few seasons have we begun to address them and many more still exist. What does that tell you? And as for your argument about the attack the defence is still a huge problem, you can bring up statistics in regard to clean sheets and what have you but the fact remains the team has major flaws tactically specifically when when it comes to defending. These flaws are much more evident against opposition that’s on par and even more so against better teams which is a key reason they beat us more often than not.


#30

Chelsea went from Ranieri in 03/04 to Jose in 04/05, completely different styles and how long did it take for them to win the league ? Not saying that would happen with us but I don’t think you can just dismiss it due to contrasting styles either.


#31

Not sure how valid your example is tbh no real point citing examples from over a decade ago. Nature of the league has changed.

I doubt If Simeone did come he’d deliver major success instantly. For his management to be successful it requires a deep level of commitment, desire and belief something the current Arsenal squad have never been exposed to.

I think a transition in general under him would take much longer than it would under Koeman or Tuchel.


#32

As far as style of play goes Koeman is much more similar compared to Simeone than he is compared too Wenger. Bit weird to mention him in that regard.

Our players also have experience under other managers. Ozil’s reputation was build largely in Real Madrid’s counter attacking system. It’s not like they are born and bread in one particular system. It anything the current players can’t operate in the current system and might just be more suited with a counter attacking style of play.

And players can come and go. It’s not like Simeone has to work with the current crop. I think this squad needs an overhaul anyway.


#33

I didn’t mention style in my post for a reason. The idea that Koeman could get more out of the squad sooner is based on his PL experience and application of ideals. I also Benitez would get alot out of this squad sooner than Simeone ever could because of his experience, personality and methods.

No one is doubting whether our player can’t hack it playing another system, the original question is how long it would take for Simeone to shape the squad in his way or how long we’d be in ‘transition’ for which I asserted would be 2/3 season due to Simeone’s management style and methods. An overhaul takes time


#34

I agree.
Simeone plays the type of football we used to when Wenger first came here.
We had hard working players, pressing the opposition, playing a counter attacking style with pace on the break, and it was also the most successful under Wenger.

I’m not sure about a complete overhaul but certainly in attack it would need a change.
Simeone is used to working with world class attackers with pace and skill, something we have lacked since RVP but I think defensively we have the players that are good enough.

It might take a few seasons for him to get used to the PL, and I’m not against Koeman, or any other top manager, but I can see Simeone doing well in the PL.
Let’s hope it’s for us and not Chelsea or Man U.


#35

Why don’t his methods fit in with us?

Koeman, Pellegrini, Wenger, Guardiola, Mourinho had no Premier League experience either and had quick success in this League. Guardiola’s overhaul, and Wenger’s own overhaul for that matter, didn’t take that much time too materialise.

I really don’t think Koeman or Tuchel are going to win the Premier League, if any of those three would achieve that with us anyway, sooner than Simeone would do. If anything I see a manager like Koeman consolidating our position in the League rather than improve us.


#36

No thanks, can’t speak English, shite football


#37

Like a said earlier I think he thrives in a particular environment we just don’t offer at Arsenal, it would take alot of time for him to change things to suit his management style. I’m not sure how well he could implement his ideas here.

Mourinho and Wenger I won’t count as proper example towards your point because their were over a decade ago. The nature of the league has changed.

Koeman did well because he didn’t seek upheaval. Southhampton have done well with their managers because they seek continuity rather revolution in their appointments. They want a broad style to imposes and an expectation to use the academy

Guardiola inherited the league’s best squad on paper before he even made any signings this summer. There has been no overhaul at City just a better implementation of tactics and mentality. I’d love to see how he done at Arsenal or if he’d choose a harder option if he had a straight choice between both clubs. Pellegrini arguably failed at City despite the initial title win. In fact I’m not sure how valid Man City examples are considering their spending power. City’s situation doesn’t resemble Arsenal’s at all

The Arsenal job post Wenger is a difficult one imo it’ll be hard to find the right man to build on what we have a drive us forward. When I think about Simeone, I don’t see a title guaranteed


#38

I’d rather shitty football if it won us trophies.


#39

What kind of environment than? The underdog environment? Because Arsenal fans have made sure we’re the underdogs (the mentioning of City’s spending power all the time for example). Or what exactly do you mean by that?

No overhaul? He’s maybe starting with the same playes as last year (bar 3 or 4), but his tactics are a major transition from what they were doing. Especially since his style is so difficult to implement. Arsenal aren’t a poor club either. Every manager who comes in will have sufficient funds to find their players and implements their ideas. Sure we don’t have the 150 million quite of City, but 80-100 million isn’t peanuts either. It’s Simeone btw who proved to able to compete with clubs who have superior spending power…

Because the Arsenal job is so difficult we need somebody who has a strong personality and who’s convinced of his ideas. I think Simeone fits that profile well.


#40

What style of play is that? As far as I can tell our current style of play only exists to prevent us getting hammered 6-1 by Chelsea/Liverpool etc, beyond that… :yum: