Criteria for success

So I feel it’s an interesting discussion I am having with @Stroller.

Ozil, Kolasinac, Xhaka and most of the wasters we bought under Wenger will be out at the end of the season. That way we can finally say there are no remnant of Wenger’s activities within the club that could possibly hold a new manager back. There are always butterfly effects but it is never possible to create a complete isolated sterile environment to say for sure.

What should be the bare minimum achievement for Arsenal as a club regardless of manager in next 5 seasons ie. 2021-22 to 2025-26?

Take into consideration that clubs like Everton, Tottenham, Leicester are likely to grow as clubs themselves.


Couple of real title challenges and be an established CL top 8 team with at least one sf appearance in the CL and we should bare minimum land a Europa cup.


12 league titles or we riot.

With smaller clubs catching us up and overtaking us, like spurs, Everton, Wolves and Leicester, we have to finish ahead of them but also not be too far behind the bigger clubs like Man City, Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea.

Being out of the top six, for a club of our stature is unacceptable so the minimum requirement would be challenging for a CL place.

The problem is, with us finishing mid table in consecutive seasons, which looks likely, is that it brings the level of expectation down to a mid table mentality.
That can’t be allowed to happen because if it does, then anything above that is considered a success which is unacceptable for a supposed top European club.


Well, if you want to replace someone because he could only win FA Cups and finish in the top 4, then you obviously need to see the club do better than that.


You speak of Wenger? Who finished 6th in his last season? And 5th in his second to last?

Yes, but I wanted him to go even when he finished 4th and I was certainly not the only one who wanted him to leave at that time.

If people still had a belief in Wenger as a coach, then he obviously should have been allowed to give it another go, but with better players.

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Obviously? He bought the goddamn players…

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No need to make this thread about Wenger.

What are your rational expectations of the club?

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We need to finish in the top four 4 years out of every 5, and we need a league challenge, by that i mean that we still have a chance of the title with 2-4 weeks left, every 3-4 years…Throw in a cup every 3-5 years, then I’d be ok with that…


To answer the question, top 4 and some domestic cups is the absolute minimum. Our budget is good enough to achieve that and regardless of how bad our team is performing currently we have a top 4 squad.

Financial doping is a real thing and we will never just be able to buy our way out of our problems like Chelsea, City, and United (even tho they are very bad at it) Liverpool have been wasting money for years trying to do this too, only recently did they start hitting on some guys. Issue is if we are going to mount a title challenge we have to be incredibly smart in the market. Buying Partey was a flex of our financial muscles, but it wasn’t a smart buy. Partey is smart if we are one piece away from winning the title. He’s an older player and a depreciating asset. If u wanna build a team with financial restraints u get guys like Buendia and Sboszlai (?) Young guys around 20m, and u develop them.

So being smart is the key. We haven’t been smart about buying players for cheap and developing them since around 2013 or so. We don’t have the scouting network now, and we don’t have a shrewd person to negotiate in the market either. We’ve got Edu who’s a super agent simp, and Arteta who can’t manage to save his fucking life. We are in some trouble for the foreseeable future.

So financial wise we should be ahead of Everton, the scum, and any other little squad who comes to challenge us. We have to be smarter than the clubs who are financially superior. It’s a tough ask and not one this club is gonna be able to do as currently constructed. Need Wenger back in some sort of role to get the ship righted.

No he didn’t. Top 4 every single year when Wenger had the scouting duties and final say. He would never have sanctioned a dood like Xhaka for 35m in the old days when we had a team of ballers all of Arsene’s chosing. I could see Arsene pulling the trigger for like 15m, a sum we could afford to lose on a flop like this shitter.



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Wenger = :goat: :goat::goat::goat::goat::goat::goat::goat:

Bring him back we succeed, keep the current set up we fail. Ezzzzzzzzz

This is getting old. Very old.


It’s a good question/thread really outside of Wenger imo for us to discuss.

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Absolutely. Afraid it’s gonna end up in yet another countless I miss wenger-thread.

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Consistent Champions League football again and a couple of legit title challengers hopefully winning 1.

What we’ll likely get though is flawed work in the transfer market continuing, hovering around 5th-10th and might jag a domestic cup.


It won’t if you contribute :slight_smile:


It also depends on if we keep Arteta or not.
The expectation and criteria will be much lower if he stays but, if the board do show a little ambition and get proven manager at the highest level, which clearly don’t think is going to happen, then we will expect a lot more from this group of players.

I’ve said it before but I think the board are more than content with this situation.
The level of the club drops so, consequently, the expectation level goes down and, because the board know that supporters are loyal and that club is a money making machine, all they have to do is the bare minimum and keep us just challenging for a top six place.

After a few seasons of mid table mediocrity the criteria will have changed from wanting to challenge for the title to anything near the top six places.

Anyone who doesn’t believe this, I would remind them that only a few seasons ago we would regularly predict for us to challenge for the title and that the idea that we could finish below sours and not playing in the CL, was ridiculous.

Yet this season, we’d consider a success challenging for a CL place and being ahead of spurs like it was some sort of trophy.

The board have dragged us down to this low expectation level and are quite happy about it.
They have a lot to answer for.


I get the gist of this argument but can’t see it being beneficial for them as a money making scheme.
Finishing lower and dropping behind doesn’t equate for making more money.
Now im critical of them not doing enough and use the term cheating the system a lot. I see that as cost cutting the way too the top which won’t work imo but I don’t think they can rely or would see under achievement as a way of making profits for long.