Next time we’ll make sure to share the clips directly from Piers himself.
Have you heard he’s an Arsenal fan? 
That also means your best bud will be on the scene too 
Just seen a clip of this guy being asked by Piers of Messi winning the World Cup made him the greatest and he replied “how many world cups have Argentina won before him?” Apparently it’s normal for countries like Argentina to win the World Cup lol. Even though they’d only won it twice in their history and not at all since 1986.
By Cristiano’s logic - how many CL trophies have Real won before and after him? It’s normal for them to win.
More normal for Argentina to win titles than Portugal though tbf. Probably should’ve won in 2014 in their rivals backyard.
Argentina flopped for many years relative to talent, so you can argue messi got them over the line, although it happened a lot while he was playing too.
It’s not the first time he’s made this argument and actually, I’m fairly positive he has also brought up the example you just mentioned about Madrid too.
If your national team is historically crap, then aren’t your chances of winning a WC pretty slim, no matter how good you are?
Norway have Haaland & Odegaard for example, I can’t see them winning anything, ever.
I don’t think that WC winning Argentina team was anything special beyond Messi, DiMaria & Alvarez.
They fortunately stumbled upon a midfield(Enzo+McAllister) during the tournament that worked.
I put more onus on the coach and those 3 attackers for being able to win the WC. Rest of them were shitters like Molina, Cuenca etc who were just there to execute the tactics.
Compare that to Ronaldo’s team-mates -
- Bruno Fernandes
- Rafael Leao
- Bernardo Silva
- Cancelo
- Diego Jota
- Joao Moutinho
- Pepe
- Ruben Dias
- Rafael Guerreiro
- Cédric Soares
- Rúben Neves
- Pedro Neto
- Joao Felix
- Goncalo Ramos
If that were a PL team, it would compete for the title.
If Messi can win the WC with just 5-6 quality players, Ronaldo should definitely make a bigger attempt at it with 11+ quality players to work with.
Edit - added Ruben Dias
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Montiel - Romero - Otamendi - Acuna
The worst back 4 to have ever won a World
Cup
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Compare that to Portugal backline
Guerreiro/Cancelo - Dias - Pepe - Dalot
I completely forgot they had Ruben Dias as well.
It’s ridiculous of anyone to suggest that Messi had an advantage over Ronaldo in WC’22
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Who did?
Anyway, the main component of each teams success is the two players in question. One performed and one didn’t.
You can’t leave out Martinez from your Argentina ‘good list’ though since he literally saved their ass in the final. Nor macallister (better than neves/moutinho) and Lautaro (better than ramos/jota) really.
Sure, If I have to do a similar list,
- Emi Martinez
- Christian Romero
- Otamendi
- Enzo
- MacAllister
- Lautaro
- Alvarez
- Di Maria
That still pales in comparison to Portugal’s squad which was filled with title winners like Ruben Dias, Cancelo, Bernardo Silva, Diego Jota, Leao(won Serie A that season), Pepe
Not to mention, WC22 was first big tournament for likes of Alvarez, MacAllister, Enzo and Emi Martinez. Couple of them started playing top flight European football 6 months prior.
Di Maria had to be rested for 3 matches prior to final.
Messi not just performed but he made his set of average players to play out of their skin while Ronaldo couldn’t get his elite set of teammates to compete with Morocco’s energy.
Messi/Ronaldo debate #926 on OA.
Well you say this but you yourself acknowledged the impact of the coach which personally I feel was always the problem with Argentina for the last 30 years. They finally got someone who focused on hard work and organisation over outstanding talent.
There’s a reason the galacticos were really a huge failure, rarely has that ever beaten out hard work first and foremost. Obviously talent is needed and is not to suddenly be dismissed but it’s fairly easy to see that a lot of that Portugal squad never performs and they don’t have the right balance.
Like I said, Messi performed and Ronaldo didn’t. Not much debate on their individual performances but Argentina’s only real high quality games were the semi and final imo.
I do agree with you the Portugal squad had a fair bit more talent, just to be clear. It’s just not balanced and they don’t work well for the national team.
I think the original point was about lineage anyway.
I think as Arsenal fans it should make sense.
For my money we’re the best team in the world right now but if I were to put money I’d favour Madrid, Barca, Bayern, City, Liverpool and Inter to win the CL because of their pedigree.
There’s obviously cases like Juve where they’ve been shit for too long to count on of course.
We saw it last season how people went into that tie with Madrid thinking Madrid were the favourites, and even when we slapped them at the Emirates there was still an expectation that Madrid could find a way to get past us.
England is another example where despite being stacked and having the majority of their team playing in the best league in the world, I wouldn’t put my money on winning the WC because of that pedigree they lack.
Despite the recent tournaments where they’ve gone deep in, until they actually do it I always go into these tournaments thinking “it’s England, they’ll find a way to screw it up”.
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That is true. I was highly impressed by Scaloni. He changed formation in every match and got his team to dominate his opponent be it Croatia, Netherland or France.
On paper though, Fernando Santos won 2 trophies with Portugal.
I think the biggest game changer for Argentina was that Copa America win in 2021.
Especially beating Brazil in the final.
That changed the mentality of their squad.
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I hate this term so much lol
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I know, but subconsciously it is a factor. I think that’s played a big part in City and PSG’s long wait for their first CL.
Especially the former, they were the best team in the world for several years and somehow they’ve got 1 CL to show in that period and some really mindboggling exits along the way.
I think there was a bit of that when we played Bayern two seasons ago.
I think it’s huge credit to Arteta and co how unaffected we were when we played Madrid.
At the same time, it’s a knockout tournament and many of those teams listed in your previous post have been historically strong.
Many of these teams have completely different players, coaches, staff etc across their various CL wins.
It’s difficult to win a tournament like this because there are other good teams and it’s relatively easy to go out due to a number of factors. City had a few seasons being the best and made a final and won a final, but overall it’s a small sample size and unusual stuff happens in these type of tournaments.
I think it might play a small part in terms of player mindset but the idea of pedigree is overdone to death in football.
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Pedigree is a real thing, but only really exists through experience. When Madrid were winning those CL’s, they had usually the same players winning it. Even then it depends on the type of players too, usually veterans. For them it was just another Tuesday/Wednesday.
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