Nah, I think he really felt in that moment that it would be treason to play for another team and another coach, after having put backed himself into that corner and having put himself on that cross. Shaq, Grant Hill and McGrady aren’t nearly the same or comparable because they weren’t 33 or whatever and hadn’t won one championship with their teams much less 6. Sounds like you really hate Jordan for whatever reason. (I wasn’t a fan of his growing up actually–I actually loved Stockton and Malone, they were my basketball Bergkamp and Overmars–and always rooted against the Bulls, but after you accept athletes for being what they are and the romantic ideas of your childhood fall away you accept that he is as the show put it perhaps the ‘best person at his job, ever’ and the biggest athlete so far in my lifetime probably, perhaps even more than Messi)
I don’t hate Jordan. I think what he was gets overblown. Has the documentary said anything about how Krause already had a relationship with Winter and Jackson, whilst Jordan was still a toddler (not much older than that at least), or drafted Pippen and Grant? I.e. him being the most instrumental figure in building that core? It’s always Jordan won, that bothers me. The Chicago Bulls were a great team. Not just Michael Jordan who won six on his own. Like it’s sometimes is being portrayed.
They covered literally all of that. And I don’t think they really gave Jordan undue merit tbh. Think it was a pretty decent doc.
But this is where they close off with: ‘best person at his job, ever’ ;). Whilst he might just been the person with the best conditions surrounding him in the 90s. That is my problem with it.
That was much earlier in the doc. And it’s a reflection that I think is worth making.
One of the last things in the doc was actually Scottie Pippen surprisingly giving great credit to Jerry Krause
Except when the conditions aren’t optimal he looses too 
. 95 conference semifinals.
It has been portrayed that those two had a bad cop/good cop relation anyway. That is also why the adoration goes to far sometimes in my opinion. Would he have been that great if he didn’t have the perfect Robin to his Batman? There is often no room for such questions I noticed. I think that bothers me more.
We don’t agree on much but to this point I 100% agree. Jordan was getting his ass whooped by the Celtics and Pistons up until they built a fantastic team around him and got him the best coach of all time. Jordan was great and a physical specimen coupled with great fundamental skills, but his legacy is way overblown. He didn’t do it all himself he needed a ton of help. Also the teams Jordan beat back then for his titles were pretty weak. Hardly ever faced more than one hall of famer on a team during his title runs, and if he did they were usually out of their prime. Beating the Pistons at the end of their run and an old Magic was probably the most impressive, and then beating Utah Later was good but the east was super weak back then. A bunch of B+ players no all time great teams.
I’m not sure who but some journo actually tweeted stories/quotes about how everybody thought how diluted/weak the League actually was around 1996, because of all the expansion teams. But those nuances are always ignored. When it comes to LeBron or the LBJ vs MJ discussion howeverthe same people are very quick to say how bad the East was from 2011-2014…
In the documentary there was. They did basically a whole chapter on Scottie Pippen. There was nothing that suggested that he was anything but the perfect complement to Jordan or a totally instrumental part in their success
Indeed, in sports one can lose…especially if you retire for a year and a half to play a different sport and come back at the end of the season. Still 6 in 8 is the best anyone’s done in the modern era (don’t know enough about basketball history to say if that goes for all eras).
I mean, right when they surrounded him with a top team he was winning titles. No star has done it alone. LeBron also needed teams built around him to have success.
This is more like a product of the times. Back then the super team still didn’t exist. Just as nowadays the Jazz, Sonics, etc. would’ve had not 2 but 3 all-stars, so would the Bulls. In terms of the era that just strikes me as nonsense, sports always evolve, but the Sonics, Rockets, Jazz, Knicks…those were fantastic teams with 2 massive stars on each, which was the most anyone had on a team as they were constructed back then. I don’t see any argument for era effects with Jordan, if anything it’s amazing that he was putting up the kind of statistical numbers which are still benchmarkish in a very different and more offensively streamlined NBA nowadays.
Great point about the expansion teams I hadn’t even thought of that 
I refer more to the 80s where the Lakers had to beat the Celtics who were loaded and vice versa and both those teams had to contend with the Bad Boy Pistons in their primes as well. And then in the 2000s where the Lakers had to beat stacked teams like the Trailblazers and the San Antonio Spurs who all had multiple hall of famers and loaded with B+ guys in the rest of the team. I would put Sacramento on the level of those Knicks and Pacers teams the Bulls faced who gave them a lot of trouble. The Lakers had it easy in the finals tho I will admit, the East has been weak for 20 years. It was tough to navigate the west tho back then.
The Trailblazers Kings and Spurs were no better than the teams the Bulls were beating. Rather, the Jazz certainly would’ve been a championship winning team in any other period, but had the bad fortune of coinciding with the Bulls. Might even say the same for the Sonics or the Knicks and Pacers to a lesser extent (Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Davis brothers, Mullin, Smits was a really good team).
The stuff about him losing after getting out of retirement is what I mean with certain lack of nuances or narratives spon.
Coincidentally after those playoffs the Bulls added a guy who had won two rebuilding titles and was going to win another 4 in a row. That seems like a huge deal in a center dominated era… I would think even a bigger deal than Jordan not being rusty anymore.
The Kings were on that level of the Knicks and Pacers fo sure no disagreement there. A bunch of B+ guys with one A- player (Ewing/Miller/Weber), and great coaching. However Portland was stacked to the gills. They had 2 hall of famers (Pippen, Sabonis) and a borderline hall of fame player in Rasheed Wallace, plus a stacked bench, one of the deepest teams ever. They won 60 games the season the Lakers knocked them out in the western conference finals. And the Bulls never faced a team like the San Antonio Spurs at any time, while the Lakers routinely dominated them.
In regards to Utah, they were definitely great. Stockton and Malone are 2 HOF’ers but they had plenty of chances and still lost to Houston in the 2 years Jordan was retired, in fact Houston beat them 4 - 1 in the western conference finals. When one of ur two best players is a small PG like Stockton historically you don’t win a championship.
Another thing to keep in mind is that when Jordan left the Bulls still made it to the second round of the playoffs both years with only Pippen, and they took the knicks to 7 games. Lost to Orlando with Jordan in 6 as well when he made the comeback in 1995.
So like I said, great player, top 3 all timer (Kareem Abdul Jabar is the greatest of all time) but the legend overshadows the player in this case.
Btw NBA update:
Looks like we are finally getting back on track to a somewhat normal existence.
70 game season gives the blazers no chance of overtaking Memphis into that 8th seed 
.
Thank fuck, we want Memphis in the first round lol.
Just for the record. Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the goat basketball player.
- never lost a game in college
- 6 mvps > Jordan 5
- 6 chips = Jordan 6 chips
- all time scoring leader
- 11 all defense teams > Jordan 9
- beat legendary teams to win his titles
CAP is the goat.
He also got his ass kicked by Bruce Lee
Goat basketball player not goat kung fu Master 
This is actually a good idea and golden opportunity for the NBA. The league should just erase seeding and place the teams how they see fit for a compelling finals from start to finish. Set it up in a way which which favours the best teams and historic franchises for major TV ratings.
The current seeding is very good but i’d swap the Pacers with the 76ers and OKC for the grizzlies. An all LA finals would be would be insane