The U.S. Politics thread - turd sandwich it is


#785

Well, he’s on the way out. Like any job, if you’ve got some shit to fling at your adversary what better time than as you’re walking out of the door.


#786

Can anyone shed some light on why Obama waited until now to commute Chelsea Manning’s sentence?


#787

Maybe this has a role to play.

There’s honestly no good reason to keep her locked up anymore as she won’t last to the end anyway, given her condition.


#788

America sending Trump to the UN will be a bit like the Premier League sending Leicester to the Champions League won’t it? Let’s see if they’ll do as well.


#789

Trump took the POTUS-twitter account. Now it’s really official.

It’s still incredible to me how Hill, with almost three million more votes, is not the president. Is there another country in the world where the general vote is not the decider?


#790

And he’s gonna keep on posting shit like he did with his private account.


#791

The UK lol

In 1951 Winston Churchill’s Conservatives won the election despite getting about 250,000 fewer votes than Clement Attlee’s Labour Party.


#792

FPTP in action folks.


#793

The popular vote isn’t really an accurate measure of anything

I like FPTP


#794

Well that isn’t true, it’s an accurate measure of how the electorate voted down to an exact figure.

It’s absolutely fine to prefer FPTP, it has its advantages, but to say the popular vote isn’t an accurate measure of anything is clearly not true.


#795

Well the exact figure has been skewed by the realities of the electoral system. A republican voter in Cali or NY is practical a non entity in the grand scheme of things. Who know how many voters have been dissuaded from voting because their vote is effectively meaningless.

If you have direct popular vote the result would be more accurate measure of the electorate because single voters are empowered. Even then the data would be skewed but more accurate. In fairness the entire system is flawed.

I think HRC failing to secure key states where Trump campaigned hard says alot more about the mood of the electorate than the popular vote. In any case the dems have a lockdown on two of the most populous urban states in the US the data is clearly skewed.


#796

How is FPTP any different to that though?


#797

Is it true since yesterday there is no longer any reference to climate change or LGBT on the official White House website :laughing:


#798

I never said it was.

Saying I like FPTP was a separate observation


#799

Because in the north of England, the torries can win seats, if those areas were as big as US States, they wouldn’t be able to. It’s similar but not quite as bad.

Both are undemocratic.


#800

Not necessary.

In the context of the UK, FPTP strikes a good balance between representation and more importantly effective government.

A better version of democracy is one where we can clearly hold elected official accountable.


#801

Not it doesn’t though, it creates a 2 party system that can’t be influenced by a large percentage of the population who would prefer another party. It’s good and bad in essense, that it blocks far right parties like UKIP having influence, but it also blocks centre left parties like Lib Dems having any say in our democracy despite at times getting around 1/4 of the vote.

It also allows a party getting a 1/3 of the vote total power, that is in itself undemocractic whether you like it or not.


#802

#803

Well I’ve always found that the effect of smaller parties on government policy is indirect. Rise Of UKIP motivated by Euro scepticism for example prompted the Conservatives to lean to the right and deliver a referendum on the issue. They’ve definitely had an indirect effect on our democracy. If the Lib Dem resurgence continues that will prompt Labour to react too.

Your version of democracy is one which prioritizes representation over effective government - something which I dislike because a government should be clearly accountable and unburdened with internal division.

PR systems are undesirable because it prevents effective government. The concept of effective government through FPTP has been essential to the UK. You just need to look at the performance of the coalition to see how any PR model would be highly detrimental to the UK especially in a time where we need consistent policy


#804

Fair enough.