For what is worth, I don’t think Arteta will reach Klopp levels and their work since taking over Arsenal and Liverpool respectively isn’t really a correct comparison between the two.
I was always a big fan of Klopp’s work and loved what he was doing at Liverpool even before they blew up.
I fully excused AOC for wanting to join them even if some thought it was some sort of downgrade. It was very clear to me one team was going up whereas the other was going down.
Lol just to break up this Klopp dick sucking contest, where’s the accountability for losing the two trophies that really mattered this season?
No doubt he’s one of the best but my god the man knows how to stumble at the final hurdle
Yeah Klopp came to 'Pool as proven commodity, hot manager that a lot of teams would have loved to get… he took them to insane levels with similar or less spending than Arteta - some of that was luck/skill in the players they targeted… but Arteta with 2.5 seasons has 8th, 8th, 5th… one FA Cup, R32 and Semi-final exits from Europa league, as well as two embarrassingly early exits from FA Cup.
That is his entire body of work as a manager.
Essentially we are still on a wing and a prayer with him… are there some things to like moving forward? Yes, but a lot of that is the player acquisition… are there some steps forward in playing style and competency? I’d personally say mixed at best, but I remain an optimist, so I still have hope he will come good - my heart and brain are conflicted, b/c I have never thought he was the right direction for AFC and I have yet to be convinced otherwise, but that is just my (largely ignorant fan) opinion.
The discussion is about comparing a neophyte unproven manager with best finish 5th in EPL to Klopp… that is the ridiculous dick-sucking point here if anything.
No question Klopp is fallible, but he as you say in your own words “one of the best”… Arteta can’t be thought of that way even remotely.
I rate Pep higher but Klopp is a top coach. I wanted him at Madrid in 2015, I have no clue how Liverpool stole him that year.
Didn’t even realize there were gooners that wanted him then. Didn’t even think he would consider us, let alone Liverpool.
I’ll give Arteta any excuse in the book if he starts getting Arsenal 90 +points seasons with almost +70 GD and consistently gets into the Semi/finals of the CL.
I think we missed the timing IIRC - we stayed with Wenger one year too long if I am not mistaken (at least if we were going to target Klopp).
My dream back then was somehow Pep 10 years ago was Pep taking over Arsene. There were faint rumours he liked us as a club, and there were always comparisons between Arsenal and Barca because of the similar philosophies. Sucks it never came to fruition.
Oh I love the heat this brought. One last question. Do you guys not think that Arteta can get better, grow and evolve in the job.
Klopp was a master of bottling the final- still is, yet he got so good at it that he eventually was lucky enough to come up against Spurs. Probably the only entity out there with greater bottling DNA.
Arteta is a young manager but he has a great eye for the game, not to mention the courage and charisma to hold his nerve as a high profile manager. It’s not something you see every day with newcomers in high profile gigs.
Not talking to you GC. I know you get it.
He is clearly awesome, but I can’t stand the guy.
I was Klopp metal-head football every day… at least in reference to those two. TBF I thought (and this will sound totally incongruous) we should go for Simeone when Wenger left (Klopp was gone and the options were not as rich at that moment), even if that meant our football became far more pragmatic for some period - I felt we might benefit as a football organization from a rebalancing of style as a transition, and not to mention a bastard who would drive the team - but it was kind of a crazy and unpopular take I acknowledge.
Didn’t it 
Arteta absolutely has the potential to become a top manager, and it is plain to see how much he has already grown into the role since he has been at Arsenal. The way the players talk about him shows how good he is. I really believe that Arteta can achieve great things for Arsenal and create his own legacy at the club.
But we now have evidence for Klopp - you make it sound like once you do insanely well you should automatically do insanely well again like that is somehow just trivial, when bizarrely you are arguing for a guy whose best is 5th and 70 points.
As far as heat, those are all pretty much your words lol - the dick sucking and the “one of the best”… The rest is just factual argumentation.
Is it possible that Arteta comes good? Yeah sure, but that was similar argument made at his hire, and we now have 2.5 years of data… it isn’t like he makes it clear he is going to do anything remotely close to Klopp in the next 3 years.
Even with Liverpool’s diabolical stumble in 21, I’d be willing to bet any amount of money that Arteta doesn’t match 260 points in the next 3 EPL seasons combined… frankly, I’d be shocked if he pierces 240.
I don’t understand this desire to break the game into metrics that don’t mean shit. Like when a manager builds a world class squad they should obviously be competing for the life blood of that squad.
Anything less is a failure.
It’s why the Invincibles era should have been more. We had one of the greatest teams in the world, yet no European glory. Yes we went unbeaten but that’s a statistic that later becomes trivia.
Klopp has one of the best teams in the world right now so judging us side by side isn’t going to do us any good. There isn’t a manager alive winning the CL or even the league for us in the next 3 years.
I guarantee we’ll look back at this Klopp era and ask the question why wasn’t good Liverpool side the dominant force in Europe, winning more than once.
I agree on the Invincibles 100% - that was a bit tragic, especially in an era when we basically had one team to beat - it is much harder now with a crazy ascendant City, Pool, still rich Chelsea (not sure wtf will happen to them), rich AFC, super-rich ManU (they will be annoyingly back at some point), and a semi-ascendant Spurs.
We can agree to disagree on some words re: Klopp - what we both agree on is that “he is one of the best”.
I don’t think Arteta is even in the conversation on that - will he be? I dearly hope so, but from all evidence I don’t think he is… fair play to you for your strong opinion to the contrary. Cheers.
I think people also downplay manager’s who win the CL, but “only once” - it is incredibly hard, and there are always like 5-8 insanely top talented teams, along with an army right behind that level. Winning it one out of 5 years is insanely good imho. Our best manager of all time never won it, with some of the best teams on the planet.
The best he will ever get is probably on the level of Ole. Expecting him to go the way of Lampard this season tho.
That’s what you hope! You’re going to be disappointed
This is my line of thinking too. I’m simply just wearing it on my sleeve. It’s romanticism but also pragmatism. Which sounds paradoxical but it isn’t.
I simply believe that Mikel is the best option right now to bring us forward. I know you and Aussie have different ideas for what that means but it just isn’t realistic right now for us to be toe to toe with Pool and City.
We need them to slow down and we need to speed up. That won’t happen over night. Arteta cares about the club, has a good rapport with the owners and seems to have a very strong talent ID- Edu too if I’m being honest. I didn’t care for Edu at the start but he’s proving me wrong.
I put all these positives together and I don’t see any manager I’d look to replace him with tomorrow. I did want Conte at one stage but I now see how short sighted that was from me.
If we don’t get top 4 this season, I’d happily see Arteta walk. However I wouldn’t say his time was wasted here, an FA Cup and a youthful revision of a disgusting squad is merit in my eyes
I look at it a bit like I look at top young player prospects… some become brilliant, most don’t make it or find themselves toiling in lower levels, and a few sadly burn out completely.
The odds are simply against Arteta until he shows something incredibly special and that just hasn’t happened for me. And football (all sport) is a cruel business ruled by results… AFC belongs in the 80-90 points range so we can pounce on off years of the ridiculous 95+ teams, I just don’t see that happening under Arteta.
But like I said (and this will be my final word on this tonight), my brain and heart are conflicted - the Cinderella story of Arteta (a AFC player who also starts his last name with first two letters “A” and “R” is just too good, just like ARSene).