I think background also has a lot to do with the conversation, like where you actually grew up in the world. Coming from California, where it’s truly a melting pot and all races live here generally together shoulder to shoulder, I see this kind of stuff as a non issue. Sure I’m white, but my 3 best friends, basically my brothers are all black guys. They make jokes like this all the time. To each his own I guess but they’d be laughing and rolling their eyes at this conversation. But I get it, if you come from a very segregated area I can imagine you’d feel a lot different.
First of all it’s ok to get offended. Nothing else happens to you.
But in this instance you’d be getting offended over a positive stereotype, delivered as a joke and meant as a compliment. I don’t get the desire to roast people for trying to have a laugh when there was no malice involved whatsoever. However misjudged, I don’t believe that this was a racist act.
Importantly in this particular case, the big dick stereotype is a joke used by a lot of black guys a lot of the time which makes the offence taken line appear slightly disingenuous. Can’t have it both ways.
But then again maybe I don’t understand prejudice because I’m not black and we all know that prejudice stops and starts with racism.
It’s not a positive stereotype, it’s fetishisation of a race of people Has its root in the idea of the slave owners wife finding the big muscley well hung slave irisistable
It’s like saying “how is saying Jews are good with money a bad thing”
Being black I see it differently. It can be offensive the hyper sexualization of of the black male. Seriously when you find stats that show 80% of women of other race will love to sleep with us and only 10% would marry us. This racial stereotype goes way back to slavery where we were seen as grotesque animals with a huge sexual appetite that they had to protect they white women from
Fair enough- I’ve never had that particular desire so I’ve learned something. See how dialogue is better than casting aspersions and making accusations.
Someone should probably tell that to the guys in nightclubs though mate.
Unless the person you are talking to has used that joke themselves then saying “can’t have it both ways” makes no sense at all. Even if they have made the joke there is a clear difference between someone making a joke about their own race and other people making that same joke about them. Just like a black person can self referentially use the n word if they want to and still be offended by non black people using that word.
Black people don’t have a hive mind, just because some black people make certain jokes it doesn’t mean that a completely different black person then isn’t allowed to find the same jokes offensive when told by predominantly white people.
Offence is taken not given mate, if you didnt like my post it must be something to do with you.
What? I wasn’t offended in the slightest. Genuinely, what do you mean?
But if this notion is perpetuated forever more then you’re never going to be able to get over pointing out the slightest difference between person A and B. This is what I’ve always struggled with. Viewing it through the prism of history.
At what point can someone in the c21st making a joke about a black guy’s penis size be finally disassociated with them having some background racist nuance in their words, dating back to slave plantations and the American South…
You probably won’t be too surprised to learn my views on certain aspects of modern white guilt over the slave trade
Basically it goes back to the fact that you’re not allowed to joke about anything any more because there will always be someone out there who takes offence and it is everyone’s god given right to never be offended and live in a hermetically sealed social safe space. Unless you’re white, in which case fuck you because you’re great-great-great-granddad might have had slaves - well, in the unlikely event that he was one of the 0.5% of the population to have had slaves and not just a fucking peasant like the vast majority of people.
Remember, whites are inherently racist even when they’re not being overtly racist by simple virtue of being white (apparently we have to be out constantly protesting and doing activist things otherwise we’re part of the problem). And you can’t be racist against whites because that’s not how it works.
Probably when black people dont routinely face discrimination in their day to day lives. Until then it would be best for white people to be more mindful and thoughtful about what they say and the implications of it.
Not you, this is a general point, but its incredible how many white people get their knickers in a twist about being told off for making jokes centred on racial stereotypes. With my sensibilities this is no surprise, but I don’t feel hard done by because I’m not allowed to make jokes about black guys having large penises.
Racism will not go away if we have to pussy foot our way around words.
I liken this to something that is incredibly prevalent in football and that’s how how black players are described particularly in punditry.
Two most common words thrown about are the two P’s; pace and power. Sure these may be “positive stereotypes” but they are soaked in racial stereotyping. Black players hardly ever get praised for their technique, vision, guile et al it’s almost always their psychical characteristics. For example Yaya Toure was perhaps the most dominant player in the league at one point and yet he was only every described as being powerful, and fast once he got going. This is despite the fact he had exceptional technique and more.
It’s quite hilarious that a group of white people are essentially saying what black people can be offended at and hey if they don’t like it’s their problem, they’re being “victims” and need to contain their emotions.
What a load of unfettered grade A bullshit.
You really like to talk a whole heap of shit don’t you?
And you always are quick to play the victim card, aren’t you?
in a perfect society your right you should be able to say anything,
if all forms of mental and psyical disability were cured and didn’t affect people anymore then I guess calling someone a retard or a massive spastic wouldn’t be a problem
cure racism then you can be racist doesn’t really make sense though does it
If you really believe that the issue of racism is linked to people pussy footing around words (in other words saying offensive things to people) then you’re a bigger part of the problem then you’d probably like to believe.
Look if there was a spate of stabbings in East London related to Scandinavian gang violence, I wouldn’t have a problem with the police profiling blond haired blue-eyed giants and checking them for weapons. Just how the Irish were scrutinised during the troubles. If a black guy gets pulled over in the South Side it makes sense to check him for a weapon and assume he might have one, because there’s like 30 black gang-related shootings in the South Side every weekend.
It’s a joke about Romelu Lukaku having a massive cock, not Ron Atkinson calling him a big dumb nigger. There’s a DIFFERENCE. I am ok with the former, not with the latter.
It’s not just racism that I down play, it’s EVERYTHING. Cancer, aids, famine, poverty, addiction, whatever. I stand by the right of people to joke and comment about pretty much whatever they want because we live in a society where the freedom of speech and expression is fucking paramount to everything we do. Once we start censoring and policing what people say and do it’s the beginning of the end for society. I fucking hate Jeff Dunham and his comedy show; his whole dead terrorist spiel is not funny or clever or good, but some people find it funny and it is their right to watch it and go to his shows.
Well Jake, have you read the Guardian opinion piece a few posts up?
That had an example in it of a very irritating notion I alluded to above, whereby the writer made a very sweeping statement about how so-called positive discrimination is always accompanied by an attached negative discrimination.
A person thinks a black guy has a big penis, well oh he can’t possibly hold that opinion in isolation, it must by a byproduct of how s/he thinks said black guy being less intelligent.
And as a knock on from that, if we’re then saying that not all singers of the Lukaku song may hold equally racist undertones within their psyche - and essentially that an individual can think for themself, unburdened by historical precedent - what weight does the collective offence angle hold?
We had this before with the Tottenham / yiddos debate, but how many people need to be offended and how many people need do the offending before action is taken…