Liverpool thread


#2218

Not net.


#2219

Its a squad game Salah Manè and Firmino can’t and won’t play every game.


#2220

Klopp is actually playing Shaqiri, Firmino, Mane and Salah together regurlarly the last few weeks/months. Makes sense to replace Shaqiri with Insigne. But it’s probably a BS rumour.


#2221

Five years is a perfectly reasonable benchmark b/c a lot can turnover in that period - case in point Liverpool and City. If you want to extend it out, you can go ahead but I would argue going too much further becomes a data mess if you are looking for relevant investment towards current squad.


#2222

With Liverpool we can trace some of their recent success back to buying Torres and selling him for huge money, that then enabled them to bring in Carroll and Suarez. Their board then put money in their own pockets and invested. Some investments were wasted like Downing and Carroll and some paid off big like Suarez and Coutinho. The Suarez, Coutinho and Sterling money all helped them spend big money but the investment for those player sales happened long long ago.


#2223

Yep - it was shrewd buying and selling that allowed them to have such a great squad now while underspending us in net spend the last 5 years…


#2224

A large part of it was a huge lack of underinvestment for a decade while selling off our own assets while banking the funds.

Still remember ‘The Adebeyor funds are available for the manager’. What a load of horseshit that was and some of our fans on here are still believe Wenger could spend what he wanted and chose not to


#2225

I agree.
I also think Wenger wasn’t given the financial backing he could have had if our board genuinely wanted success over profits.

What I don’t understand is why did Wenger go along with the lies from the board and, along with Gazidis, keep repeating that lie to the supporters, that we could compete financially with every club in Europe, when it was clearly not true?


#2226

So how do you explain the summer of ‘Petr Cech’ ?


#2227

There is truth somewhere in between.
Wenger was never for continuous conveyor belt of players and board were never for expensive players.

Board tried to identify players based on stats, which I am sure never thrilled Wenger.
Wenger tried to find cheap gems in an era where young players were going for millions.

All of them couldn’t get a great value via player sales and stuck with mediocre players for far too long


#2228

I’m not sure. It could be we were holding out for someone elite that we couldn’t get. It could be that we couldn’t increase our wage bill without selling, which would be a failing. It could be the installments we were paying from the prior summer, which was large hamstrung our spending and the club wasn’t willing to sanction purchases off the back of that.

It may have been Wenger’s relationship and loyalty to players meant he didn’t want to force them out. There really should have been wholesale changes, failing players pushed out and recruitment should of been more aggressive. Did you see the Arsecast I posted in Summer Transfer Rumours? Ornstein talks about a culture of complacency throughout the club.


#2229

I think Wenger felt like he had his team tbh. A goalkeeper signing was the last piece of the puzzle. If I remember correctly Mertesacker got injured in pre-season in 16/17 and he suffered injuries in 14/15. Which might have lead to acquiring Mustafi etc. I feel like the last 4 years of his reign he was to reactionary on the transfermarket.


#2230

I agree.
After so long as manager and, more importantly, under no real pressure to succeed, not only did Wenger become complacent so did the players.

Too many first team players were playing, knowing that their position in the team was almost guaranteed.

Players like Denilson, Giroud, Walcott, Almunia, Diaby, etc, were all clearly not top quality and would go through long periods of mediocrity yet were continually seen in the starting line ups, taking wages that could, and should, have been put to better use elsewhere.

Emery has to change that culture of complacency and with the Ozil situation, he looks like he won’t stand for the sort of consistent lacklustre performances by certain players, and they will have to prove themselves worthy of a place in the team on performance levels, rather than being the managers favourite.

Emery is under pressure in every game, something which Wenger wasn’t and which consequently lost him his job.


#2231

You use the last 5 years because it fits your narrative. To coatmakers point they’ve been spending big for a long while acquiring assets. So what’s their total net spend the last 20 years or so? Think that gives us a much better idea of what kind of business has brought lolpool to this point.


#2232

I could go further back, but I think much beyond 5 years starts to get into noise territory… they are such a vastly different club just since Klopp joined… I think you guys are overstating the effects of transfer dealings long ago, but I get your point.

And for the record, I didn’t pick 5 years b/c it fit my narrative, I was actually objectively curious and annnoyed that people spout stuff without a lick of evidence one way or another. I picked 5 years a priori because I genuinely think that is about what it takes to build a squad. We judge managers on much shorter timeframes than that…


#2233

Wenger once said he could write a book about what was going on at Arsenal. I think this is what he was alluding to


#2234

That be in the fiction section when it comes out then.


#2235

Looks like they are going to bottle it boys .
Nothing would please the footballing world more
COYG


#2236

People are jumping the gun on this, yeah they’ve had 2 draws but it was always expected you’d have a slight blip at some stage during the season.


#2237

Agree the loss to Newcastle by city is still the most significant result of the season so far. Liverpool should beat Bournemouth and leave City with another must win game against a Chelsea side who can organise very well on the day.