In an ideal world, Ben Wallace had decided to stay in politics and won Tory party leadership.
That man is just so fucking sensible and moderate, he’s exactly what UK politics is crying out for right now.
Yeah, maybe, but it really depends what side of the fence you sit in. Some people will say he should have stayed, others the complete opposite.
I guess that’s just how it goes sometimes and there are always variables and ‘what ifs’, so it’s hard to really say definitively what may or may not have happened. Just the nature of the beast.
For me personally, I don’t think the Pistons win the title in '04 without him.
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You’ve made my day.
Doubtful, the plan to plot a path to return to the EU is already in motion. Similar to Trump, Brexit is something Starmer and the cabinet deeply despises and resents, he put up red lines on FOM and the single market only placate red wall voters and secure power.
They’re already planting the seeds and hoping by the end of their second term they’ll have gerrymandered the electorate to the point attitudes towards Brexit would have fundamentally shifted so a referredum can take place.
The political establishment in the UK is mostly against Brexit and is pro EU, its inevitable they’ll attempt to take us back.
The key is stopping starmer in 2029. Some form of electoral pact between Reform + Conservatives is required but I doubt it’ll ever happen.
EU membership was decided on a nationwide yes/no referendum, and re-entry would be too unless the govt decided to just do it unilaterally, which they never would, so how could you gerrymander your way back into the EU?! Constituency boundaries have nothing to do with such a vote.
I meant to say “rig” instead
You’re assuming the EU will just let us back in.
How do you envisage them rigging the electorate?
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You should really be doing a Trump impression any time you talk about rigging elections 
If we redid the referendum today there is zero chance we’d have left the EU.
Well, they rigged it last time through rhetoric, scaremongering and misinformation. 
The case for Brexit was based on lies and deception. Leaving the EU has been a total disaster for the UK and I think most leave voters regret their decision. The quickest way we could boost economic growth in this country is to rejoin the EU so of course this is something that Starmer should consider. Give it time and the majority of the public will be behind this position too.
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I think whether you’re pro eu or a Brexiteer, there really isn’t debate about the UK’s value as a member of the EU. We’re not talking about a county like Lativa here, the UK has always been a net contributor to the EU and that has its usefulness when it comes to things like taking on common debt, defence, migration, the EU budget and fishing access.
Not to mention that a UK return would be the death blow to euroscepticism.
@JakeyBoy - Short version: Bringing the UK in “dynamic alignment” with the EU without a mandate, failing to negotiate comprehensive FTAs with other major economies, votes at 16 so they remain in power and allowing EU nationals to vote in a potential second referendum.
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Euroscepticism is one of the dumbest ideas only benefiting tax cheats.
Increasingly irrelevant as individual countries, hating on part of the order that has prevented them from fighting eachother for the first time in millennia. That allows them to be relevant alongside China and US and Russia.
Pathetic
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Countries who have failed to sign ones with us yet post Brexit despite Brexiteers telling us they obviously would want these trade agreements with the UK and that it would be easy to do? Weird to then imply it’s gonna be indication of some sort of underhand behaviour by Labour to rig a vote if they also don’t get those deals in place.
Very confident that neither of those things happen lol, especially the EU nationals voting in a second ref.
Guess we’ll wait and see, but I’m not really convinced by anything in your post. But I suppose you did say you see this happening in an at the moment entirely hypothetical second term, which is a long way off, so maybe by then the things you talk about won’t seem farfetched to me quite a few years down the line.
After all, if you told me around 2015 that nazi salutes would become commonplace in American politics and the ADL would be defending people who do them, I’d have probably laughed in your face.
I do however agree with you in the longer part of your post that was aimed at Jules, think that’s spot on 
That part is unsurprising if you’ve been following the ADL from the 90’s.
They were defending/excusing nazi salutes in the 90s?
They’ve got a long record targeting and black balling critics.
Right, but that doesn’t mean I’d expect Republicans to be doing nazi salutes at inauguarations and CPAC and for the ADL to then defend or excuse it.