I really do believe that its not necessarilly a gun thing. My wife is actually Mexican no joke, lots of family in Mexico. This type of thing doesnt happen there and anyone can have a gun in that country. They have their own issues but ppl don’t go out and kill elementary school children like this.
… and yet there you are, probably in a vassal of this supposed f*cked up country. What does that make your country exactly?
Quite the argumentative tone, there. That’s not why I visit this forum.
OK, let me call your country seriously f*cked up, not knowing anything about it, and we can call it evens and quits.
Gun nuts always bring up Switzerland, forgetting that Switzerland has gun control and you probably need more than a nearby Tesco’s to buy a gun
4 Likes
18 year old kid, who shot his grandmother and was on the run from police when he proceeded to the school. We’ll find out how he got the gun(s) in the first place. Background checks are not exactly “no gun control”.
Edit:
*Ramos shot his grandmother before heading to the school, and was in a shootout with border patrol agents - one of whom was injured - before barricading himself inside the school buildings”
Ok my bad they have background checks is that done everywhere. Do you think I could get a gun without a background check?
I think I am more likely to in America than Switzerland
1 Like
Banning guns in america would do little because the gun culture here is fucked up and its a political thing. The gun nuts would just hoarde them and have them readily available anyways.
Conversely it would definitely prevent something that wasnt premeditated like a crazy kid committing an atrocity like today, of course who knows how or where he got a gun. Many times it’s a parents gun that they know how to get access to.
Something like in Buffalo tho, that’s clearly planned out…they’d find other ways to do. Car attacks, bombs, ect. There is something much more fucked up behind it that needs to be addressed first.
2 Likes
I never go to Switzerland in my arguments anyway, so I’m not going there with what would be a straw-man for me. Background checks are via. federal law, and I will assume you know what that means. I was directly addressing an inference that there isn’t gun control in America as if anyone can go get a gun legally. That isn’t the case.
Gun shows don’t require any background check or ID in some cases.
And if you’ve been to the southern US you know gun shows are everywhere.
1 Like
Something to stew on. You talk about gun nuts, like NRA people, but these aren’t the people committing the mass shootings. Just remember that.
Anyone selling guns has to do so using the background check system. Otherwise they are breaking the law. There is talk about private sellers at gun shows, but the overwhelming majority are licensed sellers. If you want to talk about guns obtained by this theoretical avenue look at the mass shootings, and you will see this is not a source for the shooters to have gotten their guns.
Not entirely true. At a gun show u could buy a firearm legally from a private seller and not have to do a background check. From an actually gun company ur right.
1 Like
I added to my comment before your reply, but these private sellers at gun shows are not exactly commonplace and you will have to identify mass shootings where guns were obtained this way. If you can’t you are not addressing mass shooing incidents, I hope you will agree.
I don’t mean to be callous in wading into this issue, but there are well over 300m guns in America. Beyond the tragedy of an incident itself, the pattern is always the same. Find suitable workable solutions that would reduce such mass shootings. That’s where it gets difficult. If people want Australian type mandatory government buybacks/confiscation say so, but it won’t fly in America, is practically a lot different for a country with a larger population and many more guns, and won’t get past the little matter of the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment either.
If people want to howl about America being a lunatic country or whatever, maybe that is resignation regarding the problem of workable fixes to reduce events, but I will always defend America having moved here for opportunity I wouldn’t have had anywhere else, not even close, so that kind of thing is very personal for me.
That’s only because right wing fucks have twisted the Second Amendment’s meaning. The Framers could not have imagined a weapon like an AR15 existing. The way right wing “originalism” has warped the way this country views the Second Amendment is insane.
One thing I’m particularly sick of hearing is that there are just too many guns so the problem is unsolvable. Have we tried to buy guns back? No?
And Ted fucking Cruz with audacity to say anything when he’s been taking cash enemas from the NRA. Ridiculous.
1 Like
You mean mandatory gun buy backs? Go try it. Will face litigation and be overturned by SCOTUS. Wail at SCOTUS if you want, but that’s just how it will play out.
Well I think there absolutely should be mandatory buy backs but that’s a different issue.
I don’t think it’s been attempted on a large scale here.
And, yeah the court would overturn a compulsory buy back and hide behind the excuse of originalism. But it’s nonsense. Originalism is just a way to justify not doing something because it suits your ends. “Oh sorry! We can’t do anything about automatic weapons because George Washington and Thomas Jefferson wanted us to have easy access to them!” That motherfucker had wooden teeth (ok, not really, but still) and the other guy owned slaves. Forget an iPhone, those guys would shit their pants looking a rotary phone! The idea that we allow unfettered access to weapons based on modern judges guessing what an 18th century person believed is ridiculous. Times change, circumstances change, the law has to evolve with it. Otherwise you end up where we are now.
3 Likes
I don’t have a problem with your view (alternate to mine), but we’re already at stalemate aren’t we, and.more about frustration (at SCOTUS or whatever) rather than a solution (?). That’s always how it ends up. Not my fault, just how it is, so seeing this again and again gets exhausting. That said I do want to see the specific facts of this case, how he got the guns, was it someone already on the radar of authorities (yet again), etc.
So listening to the story tonight, this kid got his guns legally. Went to guy buy them the day he turned 18. Had no prior history clearly as he’s a kid. And this clearly is part of the problem. You’ve got an epidemic of mentally ill kids going out and committing atrocities like this. So they are clearly going to pass these basic background checks. Maybe they need to pass a psychological evaluation similar to what you’d have to do to join the military.
In light of todays events I was talking with a customer of mine. He’s actually a wine sommelier, so not like some crazy right wing bearded Trump supporter. Ex military man tho but a good dood. I mentioned banning guns, and he said if that were to happen he’d go out and buy a bunch of guns and hoarde them lol. So yeah I kinda agree that in this country it’s probably a non starter to ban guns. He’s got kids who seem normal but god forbid if one of his kids was sick and decided to do something like this, guns are readily available to them.
3 Likes