People talk about wokeness like it’s a single breathing organism. If someone is declared woke then they must think the woke way about all woke topics. People are more complicated than that although, sure, there are those who will jump on literally anything in this sphere and support it, just as there are those who will jump on and oppose it.
The rest of us are here in the middle ground caring about some of it, not caring about most of it and really wishing people would just be allowed live their lives without such constant judgement.
Both religion and Disney are very successful global corporations, although most religions are far richer and certainly more powerful than Disney.
But if I was going to take moral teaching from anyone, religion wouldn’t be high on my list.
There is far too much hate, hypocrisy and bigotry to take anything moral from it.
But religion’s success, which for centuries, has been able to extract vast amounts of money from poor people they treat with contempt, while claiming to love them, is unbelievable.
To have a business model, that is based on being in fear of an invisible friend, who you’re not allowed to criticise because he can see and hear everything you do, is incredible.
But to keep up this charade for centuries is nothing short of genius.
Even Disney, who are renowned for fantasy and magical stories, couldn’t top that.
I’m amazed that so many religious people question atheists and say things like “how can you be moral without religion?”
It’s rather worrying that they need an invisible friend to stop them from rampaging around committing crimes everywhere rather than a moral compass that normal people have.
Yeah thats the extreme examples but in a modern day world that deals with diversity on a daily basis, religion gets away with promoting it.
Had its chance for centuries and failed. Lets have a try without and see how we get on.
If you don’t believe in any theism it essentially means the highest authority in your own life is government, that’s a very scary thought to me. It’s why leftists and authoritarians want to expand the state and ensure top down from control cradle to grave of our lives.
Places like Soviet Russia and Communist China are relatively modern examples of authoritarians ruling without any reference to theism where they actively stifled religious beliefs and practices, the results are historically quite bad.
The human desire to be God is dangerous and has resulted in the promotion of several anti human concepts and activities.
The idea that the God of the Old Testament is the highest authority in my life is a far scarier thought, who the fuck is that psycho accountable to? Can’t vote him out in 5 years time.
I’d never thought of it that way, but I guess you’re right, I do want an enlarged welfare state that looks after the poor and disabled because I’ve got no faith in #thoughtsandprayers solving the issue.
One doesn’t need any belief in theism for a moral compass.
This argument of Soviet Russia showing that atheism leads to prosecution because of a lack of theism, conveniently forget how during the dominance of the church everyone who showed dissent was equally murdered or imprisoned. How moral of the Church.
Or the crusades, wiping out entire pagan cultures (such as the original Baltic Prussians by the Teutonic Order or the cathar in southern France). Or the Islamic conquests spreading Islam by the sword across Northern Africa and Anatolia. All so moral.
The fact is. Humans will be immoral regardless of a belief in a god or lack thereof.
Good people should be judged by their actions not by their superstitions.
Bit of an extreme example, very rare to have large societies governed purely by the old testament. Abrahamic religions use it as a basis now that operational practice is regulated by newer concepts
I think you’ve missed the point slightly here. I’m not talking about the promotion of a welfare state, that doesn’t have anything to do with authoritarianism, imo
I love that John Lennon line God is a concept by which we measure our pain.
Having grown up and lived in Catholic countries the church and government are the same old corrupt organisations, I’ll respect anyone who follows any faith they want to, it’s nobody’s business to judge otherwise.
Replace it with a state run on strict Islamic principles, if you want an actual example and not a flippant response, the point stands.
You’re saying government being the highest authority in your life is scary to you, I was saying that I find the idea of one of these Abrahamic Gods being the highest authority in my life far scarier. God is the ultimate authoritarian, who will condemn you to a life of eternal damnation for not following his outdated and arbitrary rules. At least I can die and escape a tyrannical government.
Wanting a stronger welfare state is absolutely an example of me, a leftist, wanting to enlarge the state. I haven’t missed the point at all. This is absolutely the most common respect in which leftists want the state enlarged.
A leftist is someone who, I believe, occupies the far left of the political spectrum
Seeking an enlarged welfare state isn’t an extreme position at all imo, pretty mild left centre position that already exists in the West under a Judeo-Christian framework
I’m talking about authoritarianism and I gave two example of the type of place I was talking about.
A leftist is literally just someone who holds left wing principles, in common parlance it doesn’t by any stretch refer to just those at the most extreme end. Say communist if you mean communist? You also said “leftists and authoritarians”, suggesting that they’re two distinct things, not one and the same, which you’re now saying they are in your usage of the word leftist. But fair enough you did give two examples, I read them as being the most extreme examples of a wider phenomenon among leftists.
But fine if we’re speaking at crossed purposes slightly, that’s probs on me.
Stand by this though lol. If the idea of government being the biggest authority in life is scary, thankfully God isn’t actually real, because he’s an eternal dictator and that’s far scarier.
Doesn’t really matter, it works like thought form if enough people believe.
To me, living in a place like China governed by the ccp with state atheism is a nightmare scenario. Their regard for human life isn’t buttressed by the theist value or concepts like you would find in Buddhism and the results to this day are still quite horrifying.
As elec said there are positive and negative consequences. I don’t regard conglomerates likes Disney, Nike and Google as suitable arbiters of morality.
I get where youre coming from, as I feel exactly the same about texts of dubious origin from thousands of years ago.
It absolutely does matter, his existence is the difference between me simply dying when my time comes or being condemned to eternal damnation, for I certainly would be, based on any of the Abrahamic religious texts.
As I said though, at least you can die and the Chinese state’s control over you ends, the same isn’t true of God, if we accept the premise that any of these religions are actually right.
That to me is much, much scarier, but as I say, thankfully it’s basically just a thought experiement, as it’s very unlikely any of those religions are right. The only reason religious people dont find it a much scarier thought is because they believe their God to be a benevolent dictator, who won’t be sending them to hell, just the bad people who don’t follow his rules.
