When looking at public opinion towards the EU since 1993, societal change, the growth of UKIP, plus the financial crash, I find it amazing that remain polled 48%…
Except you have already said that “it’s an attempt to undermine the vote”, which sounds a lot like offering a motivation for his whistle blowing to me.
Could be a misreading on my part though.
I didn’t suggest that his ambition, by leaking the info, was to undermine the vote. It seems to me that he’s a highly principled individual when it comes to democracy and the law and wanted to punish impropriety by certain Leave groups. He said he’d still vote leave in a second vote.
My point is that the leaked info is being used to undermine the vote by others.
Now you are willing to speculate as to what his motivations are…
Anyway, you can believe that that’s the case for this bloke but seemingly that it can’t be the case that people reporting on it and talking about it also share those convictions.
They don’t care about democracy, the law or impropriety, they just want to undermine the vote.
If there was illegality then it is important that it is reported on and subsequently investigated, and the people doing so shouldn’t be labelled as undermining the vote. There are enough rabid and stupid Leavers pushing that ignorant reading of this story without intelligent, non-Leavers like you adding to their voices imo.
I literally regurgitated his own reasons for leaking the info, no speculation on my part at all
Can’t it be both?
I get where you’re coming from but my point has always been even if the alleged breach is true it’s not significant enough to have the result overturned or to warrant a second vote which some people are using this leak as a basis for.
At the least, parliament should have the final vote on the deal that is reached.
The word “seems” to me indicated that it was your interpretation of his motivation, rather than his stated reasons.
When the initial statement was “This is an attempt to undermine the vote” it didn’t really give me the impression that you were of the opinion that the whistle-blower at the centre of the story was acting out of high principles and that the people writing the articles about it may well be too. But you know, that could be me reading too much into a single sentence.
I’m seeming overly pedantic here I know, but it isn’t my intention to point out specific words or turns of phrase to try and prove you wrong or back you into a corner, I’m just trying to point out exactly what it was you said that gave me certain impressions.
Fair play though, I understand better where you’re coming from. I’m not coming from a position of saying that any illegal spending would necessarily have been enough to change which way it went. I just think that the illegality of such actions shouldn’t be downplayed for that reason, its still very serious. These are laws regarding democracy after all, it’s incredibly important that political parties and campaigns don’t break laws relating to the functioning of elections and referendums!
It’s like when the Tories were accused of breaking spending rules at the General Election. I didn’t think that that was the reason they won the most seats, but that didn’t make me think “ah well, fuck it, not really important is it?”
If campaigns or parties break laws surrounding elections then I want to see individuals held to account for these misdeeds. It doesn’t automatically follow that I want the elections or referendums to be done over again. I think that goes for many of the people who are talking and writing articles about the whole affair, lots of them aren’t even mentioning the prospect of a second referendum on the issue, but people are labelling them as being part of a movement to undermine the result of the vote. That doesn’t strike me as being particularly fair or logical (here I’m talking about the rabid Leavers, not you or your post)
But yeah, I do get what you’re saying now and I didn’t mean to intentionally mischaracterise your posts
I was the most anti brexit person there was but I dont really bring myself to care anymore.
I’m 99.99% certain we will end in a deal which is marginally worse then what we have now but counts as brexit. We’ll be a little bit worse off which is absorbed the economy and wont be felt too much on an individual scale and the brexiteers will have some utterly pointless shit to cheer about. The end, life goes on.
Constitutional crisis in 3…2…1
The wording of the ammendment makes it easier for Pro-EU Conservatives to vote against the government on this next month too. I’d still expect the government to not get defeated on any of the ammendemeny though
I’m quite disdainful of the House of Lords but every now and then they do something I like and make me think “fuck my principles” haha
Think they voted against a Tory welfare bill in the past, if you’re wondering what rare occasion I’m referring to lol
Bit shaky though isn’t it? We can ask for a customs union but it’s not like it’s ours to demand. It looks like the bill is pretty much you must prove that you asked for a customs union, unless I’m missing something?
Brexit: The gift that keeps on giving
Honestly the leave campaign broke numerous rules during the referendum and it’s a disgrace that they aren’t being prosecuted.
The quicker this country can get out of the EU then the better it will be . There are far better countries to negotiate trade deals with than those in the EU .
This country has some of the greatest engineering, doctorate, pioneering minds going , that’s only naming a few Britain will stand on it hind legs for decades to come . The money wasted on EU membership should be dispersed to small business, pharmaceutical companies . Brexit will only be as good as the negotiaters demand . One thing for certain, the sceptics are only interested in a narrow veiw , not one for Britain’s future.
Our engineering, pharmaceuticals and industry sectors will be decimated by Brexit. Free trade deals do little to eliminate all the barriers to trading, especially in the service and pharmaceutical sector, that they will be almost useless in enhancing these areas.
Only in the UK can you find neo-liberal ideologues so obsessed and fixated with free trade and yet most of them in government don’t even understand the concept.
Even if Brexit actually fully happens (I’ll believe it when it’s on gov.uk) it’s only a matter of time until there’s a vote to get back in. Which will pass.
Where does the Brexit outline that oversea workers will be deported and their skilful profession lost ? Simply , it doesn’t. Again this this media hype not coming from the companies that employ such skilled and dedicated workers .
Couldn’t you just as easily argue it doesn’t rule it out either?
Anyone claiming they know what brexit means is talking out of their hoop. imo of course.
Who said anyone would be deported? You mentioned free trade as if that will remove all barriers to trade. Plus I have no idea why you think our engineering sector is the 'greatest. It’s very very small and relies heavily on largely German manufacturers who have some assembly lines here. They will not be staying if we are out of the single market and customs union. We will also have a series issue with the EU rules of origin directive