That’s David Dein effect though.
Where were Arsenal prior to David Dein & Wenger?
Midtable
Lol you’re actually going to die on this hill to prove your ridiculous point.
You speak from a place of ignorance on this topic which is why you’re constantly having to go back and read articles to add credence to your point. You’re not aware of the history of Arsenal and our standing in English football. You’re not aware of the long trophy droughts clubs like Liverpool and United also suffered for decades on end.
Over history, Arsenal stand behind only the above two clubs in English football history but if that’s a mid table club then sure, that’s what we were.
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So where does this leave Dein and Graham?
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In the previous eight seasons before Wenger came here, we won two League titles, two League Cups, an FA Cup and a European cup as well as another final, which is a lot more than Wenger won in his last ten seasons as manager and Graham spent less money.
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It’s not about history though. It is about where any club would have been post laste 90s if they didn’t capitalize on the upturn of league’s fortune.
Trophywise Everton & Aston Villa were not that far behind Arsenal, Newcastle was a huge club, Leeds were a huge club, Blackburn was well funded.
All of them ended up being midtable clubs in new century, almost all relegated.
Arsenal didn’t end up in midtable only because of Wenger. Any other manager and the story would have been totally different.
One of them in prison
Lmao. How do you know that? How can you so confidently say that we would have gone nowhere has any other manager been hired.
Because we have the entire rest of the league as a sample size.
No other club bar United & Arsenal managed to capitalize on it
There is an actual demonstrable evidence to back my point.
No there isn’t. Stop fooling yourself into believing what you’re saying is a fact.
It’s a fact that Dein was a visionary who chased a talented but largely unheralded manager in Wenger. It’s also a fact that prior to that he wanted arguably the single most influential figure in the history of football (Cruyff)
It’s a fact that Dein saw the writing on the wall when he left the club and knew we needed external investment to compete.
It’s a fact that had Wenger not been hired, the board would have continued its ambitious pursuit for a top level manager. And that’s a fact because Dein was smart enough to know what was what.
What not a fact is that Arsenal would have floundered in the mid table had Wenger not been hired.
Stop dressing up your ill educated opinion as a fact
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It’s true that mid table is a measure of lack of success but on the few occasions when Graham was only mid table, he was still winning trophies and getting to European finals.
You could also argue that the measure of a great manager is how many European trophies they have won and, in the decades that Wenger has been manager, how many has he won?
This is a massive assumption that any manager Dein & Co would have been able to fend off Ferguson’s United to even win one title, let alone 3, and let alone with attacking football which changed our reputation and let alone winning a title unbeaten.
That’s a massive hill to climb for any manager, even Cruff.
Purely based on probability and sample observed in rest of the league, It is more likely Arsenal would have been midtable.
What is ill educated?
making an assumption that outcome would have been exactly same or observing the 20-30 clubs that existed in PL during that phase & notice the pattern that only Ferguson & Wenger did what they did.
You sound so illiterate right now, not understanding the basics of probability.
Also using your own childish words ‘LOL’
Like Emery & Arteta. LOL
No top european manager wants to manage Arsenal. They didn’t even want to come to PL, let alone Arsenal.
No one is submitting their CV to Arsenal even when we were actively looking for a manager.
All this bullshit about Cruff. All postering.
Why would Cruff join an anti football Arsenal back in those days when he had the whole pie for himself?
What did Arsenal offer to any big manager back then?
You are delusional to think Arsenal would have hired a top european manager back then, more likely would have hired some English numbnut like Allardyce or Rednapp.
I don’t need to argue that because there is no european football that dictates the league position.
Any other manager would have won a european trophy or two, he is still likely to end up midtable.
Exactly.
Anyone but Wenger.
Elite managers should win European trophies and, as good as Wenger is, he never did.
Graham won two League titles in his first five seasons, spending hardly any money.
He also won an average of a trophy a season while he was our manager.
Wenger won two titles in his first five seasons but bought top quality players to do it and had the defence that Graham had assembled.
After his last PL title, he won very few trophies.
I’m not saying Wenger isn’t a great manager but to just dismiss what Graham has done, while calling us a mid table club isn’t right.
Apart from Man U, we’ve been in the top three biggest, most well supported and successful clubs in the league, longer than any other club.
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Who were the third one & how many PL trophies did they win?
Nothing to do with PL trophies.
Read @InvincibleDB10 's post again.
Nobody can refute that Arsenal are, and importantly for your argument, were considered one of the top 3 clubs in England back in 1995. Nobody apart from you, seemingly.
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Thaat doesn’t mean anything with regards to your status in PL.
Liverpool were on fringes of midtable club for majority of last two decades.
United have been midtable for quite a few times.
But you wouldn’t consider them anything other than big clubs.
The status of Man U, Liverpool and us is higher than any other club in the PL and to dismiss that, as well as what Graham achieved , isn’t right.
You could also argue that, without Graham, Wenger wouldn’t have had the success he had with us.
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Yes
Honestly anything beyond 4th was midtable for me till 2016.