I was just referring to that argument. In Wenger’s case we stump on him on basis of past result, but when it comes to discussing Emery 'we don’t know how he is going to do and the meaning of what he did at other clubs is diminished.
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Its not diminished, it just has to be taken in context and there is a reasonable argument that his results at other clubs relative to their stature is quite good (Emery’s)… I did the analysis in here somewhere, and most years were damn impressive for what was reasonable expectation, especially the unprecedented results early on and the 3 Euro Leagues in a row. And his resources at Arsenal are massive to any other team he has managed other than PSG.
I would agree with you that Klopp’s two titles over Bayern trump Emery, but on the other hand Bundesliga is a one team league, in contrast with La Liga where you have two giants to contend with who are FAR richer than Bayern, as well as an emergent Atletico. Having said that, what I have mostly reacted to is not the fair criticism of Emery’s results but rather than “know it all” doomsayers who give him zero chance and conclude with simplistic (my opinion) analysis of his track record.
Fact is, failing to acknowledge the pile of pain we are in and the actual context of our league atm (we are forth in resources and are at a moment of peaking for Spurs and Pool) gives any manager of Arsenal a big hill to climb just to even get to our proper stature relative to funds/wages, let alone overachieve and hit 3rd or title contention. As I have said elsewhere, hitting 4th would be big achievement this year, after that I look at 4th at marker for reasonable judgment and in the 5 year horizon one title plus some cups and becoming relevant in CL again is successful for Emery (or whoever succeeds him if he get booted).
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I’ve said it before. The 6th place and the 63 points last season are our Chelsea’s 10th place in 11/12 (to a waaaaaaaay lesser extent). That doesn’t reflect the true strength of this squad and I don’t believe the pile of pain is as big.
I agree that 4th is a very diffcult task this season, I have stated that multiple times, but your ‘requirement’ of one title or relevance in the Champions League is exactly what I don’t see him doing. You have argued that he is an overachiever, but other than that one season with Valencia, when Silva and Villa left, and with Almeria maybe most of his achievements have been on the level of expectation.
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And Klopp has 3 seasons with Dortmund where he took them to 6th, 5th, and 7th (including his last year, which they have done better than EVERY season since)… 3 2nds which is about expectation… he has 2 seasons he clearly overachieved against one team. He was also paired with a historic scouting team, which to be fair he deserves some credit for developing. In a way his situation with Liverpool is quite similar in that they hit jackpot in last 3 years or so with transfers.
I think your judgment of Emery’s seasons is wrong, but not off by that much… still, that is 2-4 seasons above expectation, and the rest basically on par… and that isn’t even accounting for how to factor Euro League victory 3 times in a row.
I don’t think the comparison is as clearcut as you make it, but whatever…
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You do remember they had major financial problems (those 6th/5th season were part of that) around 2005-ish and Klopp actually helped rebuilding that club from the mess they were in too what they are today when he stepped in in 2008? That is why I feel people are quick to underestimate him, when in fact, obviously with others, he was a big factor in transforming that club (back) . And right know it looks very much like he is helping another club back to prominance.
I would be very glad if Emery is going to crush the expectations I have of him. Let that be clear.
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Emery also had teams with financial woes. And Klopp left them in 7th
That’s an interesting question, as an Arsenal fan how often should we be expecting to win a league title given the current landscape of the game ??
I think once or twice a decade
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Given we have now had a 15 year drought, once or twice a decade sounds like gravy.
Exactly, we’re well over due. I think there have been a few opportunities to do it in the past 10 years actually, maybe two genuine chances. 2015-16 was the most recent.
It’ll be another few years until we get a chance now though…
Just the fact that we have already won 2 away games out of 3 is a great start. Remember that we lost 2-1 at Newcastle last season.
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43 new posts… of utter garbage.
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What do you mean ? If it can’t be Wenger vs Klopp anymore it now has to be Emery vs Klopp 
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Left the club in 7th whilst helping in the rebuilding of the club and build a strong foundation for the future of which they still profit.
Anyway. If Emery should get the same time as Klopp before he can he held accountable than so be it.
How about Liverpool fans then, the last time they won the title it was 1989-90. So for them it must be one or twice a century if you project the last few decades.
It most certainly was not 1989!!
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This debate is silly. Klopp is doing well at Liverpool and i think Emery can do the same here, considering our level.
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1989 was Arsenal, with that famous Thomas goal, obviously. I meant the 1989-1990 season.
( Funny, I wasn’t born at the time, but back when i used to follow Arsenal a lot more religiously, you run into that game a lot, in all sorts of stuff, like the ‘Fever pitch’, our even the old OA forum used to refer to that match a lot.)
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i’ll pre-face by saying I think Klopp is probably the best manager in world football
But how good were Bayern at the actual time? They’d only won it twice in the 4 years before Dortmund won it. So it’s not quite the procession then that it is now. It’s also frankly at a lower standard than LL and PL, top sides aside.
Either way Emery wasn’t coaching near the quality of players Dortmund had access to like Reus, Gundoghan, Lewa, Gotze etc etc. He took Sevila to their probable ceiling.
Making 3 CL finals is a huge feather in Klopp’s cap. But so are 3 consecutive ELs even if it’s a lesser comp.
I think making 87 points and 93 points in ligue 1 been deemed a failure because his team lost a title to maybe the best collection of young players in Europe as unreasonable criticism.
Now currently Liverpool have a much better XI than Arsenal. Salah is better than any of our players. Keita is better than any midfielder we have. Fabinho is better than any DM we have. They have a better CB and GK. Salah and Firminho are on par with Auba and Laca. So Emery shouldn’t be expected to do as well as Klopp because he’s working with lesser tools.
Still Klopp has also managed to improve players he didn’t have any right to improve. Can Emery improve any of these lot? We’ll see.
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Let’s hope we can build and head in the right direction, to be honest I’d probably settle for seeing another league title in my lifetime at this point.
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