The U.S. Politics thread - turd sandwich it is


#885

Sorry did we just completel avoid the question, how were Trump’s predocessors taking fascist stances compared to Trump? Trump’s Here’s a link comparing the historic similar stances to fascism and Trump, it’s a pretty good read:

Oh and John McCain has just likened Trump’s talk of media supression to fascism, I suppose he must be a ‘libtard’.


#886

But you are blatantly uneducated and poorly read on all the issues in this thread. if you support media suppression to help a leader you’re a fascist, no 2 ways about it. A Republican in John McCain has just said as much, another smug elitist liberal. Do those labels give you a sense that you’re not clueless?

You should read up on fascism. Individual riots having nothing to do with fascism. In order for them to be fascist the political leader would have to be instigating violence as Trump has done throughout his campaign. No left wing leader has incited riots or violence, Trump has various times.

And politicians in a party supporting 1 candidate because they find there more electable or similar to their policies is in no way ‘fascist’ even if I would have liked to see Bernie get the nomination.

The reason for Trump and Brexit’s success is years of right wing media fear mongering and blaming minorities for economic hardships. All while avoiding the discussion of tax avoidance and massive inequalities in distribution of income. It’s laughable you blame ‘the liberal’ media for Trump coming to power when it’s been obvious for decades that the right wing media have been promoting stories creating hatred and division to minority groups.


#887

Shut up libtard. You snowflake cucks are ruining society


#888

Brexit brexit brexit.


#889

I’m not sure you know what fascism, or democracy is. In no democracy does any vote settle an issue forever, you can go on making your case no matter what the outcome. Especially so in the case of electing leaders because in 4 years there will be another election.


#890

This guy gets it.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

SWEDEN RAPE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD, NOT IN AMERICA THANKS


#891

Also, I’m sorry I used Fascist in the wrong sense.

What I meant to say was Leftist supporters using methods often associated with Fascists in trying to pursue their goals of undermining and destabilising the government.

I don’t support Trump or the way he’ll endorse a company or news outlet because they like him, I just found the way he spoke to the media that day refreshing and entertaining.

I wanted Sanders to win, for what it’s worth.

I definitely think the media and liberal elite played a huge part in Brexit/Trump because all I ever had to do was go on Facebook and see the facebook statuses and articles being posted that treated the working classes with nothing but mockery and contempt and made no attempt whatsoever to try and understand their perspective.

Easy enough for us to sit in our ivory towers with multiple degrees and academic opinions and echo chambers when the reality is very different for a lot of people.

I box in two different gyms with a predominantly rough and working class staff and clientele, and when I hear about these guys working 3 jobs to support their families and getting mugged and having knives pulled on them by Somalis and all sorts of shit that I’m never ever exposed to because of my background, I fucking get it. I understand why they’re fed up. It’s so easy for us well-educated, middle class types to tell the working classes how to live their lives and what opinions they should have when we can’t necessarily relate to them.


#892


#893

You get it? Really?

You understand why people would impute characteristics to a whole group of people because of bad interactions with some people of the same background? Where I come from we call that being racist as fuck.

I find it laughable that people keep encouraging folks to “understand” the plight of the poor white working class voters in the US. Their opiate problems, their unemployment, their sense of uncertainty in the modern world. Where was that call for empathy for the poor African American voters, LGBT voters, Muslim voters?

I work in a small community outside of Baltimore City. It’s a classic Trump voter haven and guess what, it’s all white, all Christian. I heard for years that black folks loved living off the government and using drugs, that Muslims hated America, that Jews controlled the US Federal Reserve. These are the people who I’m supposed to get out and get to know? The people who can’t see past their own problems? The people who were happy to write off any bad actions by their own young folks as “sick” because of “opiate problems” but immediately knew that black teenagers were “lawless” or “savage” or worse.

So I can’t for the life of me figure how you can understand why people are fed up because it sounds like what you’re really understanding is why people are racist.


#894

On a side note. What DID actually happen in Sweden last night? It’s awfully quiet here. I’m betting on the capture of the Bowling Green Massacre perpetrators too!


#895

Why not ask @A.F? Was the Eurovision Contest qualifier so terrible?


#896

He has invented a fake terrorist attack in Sweden :facepalm:


#897

The fucking bloke can’t open his gob without a stack of lies. John McCain is making the right kind of noises http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/19/donald-trump-john-mccain-media-enemy-of-the-people/98126656/

How long can Trump last? The White House is running sooo smoooothly my arse.


#898

You clearly are out of your depth here Kaner.
If you’ve met any of these Antifa wankers very few of them have a brain and basically are a bunch of bullies who hide behind a few chosen cliche’s and buzzwords they are ideological fascists in a sort of Pol Pot style .
Daring to disagree with them about anything can result in a snide attack often with bottles from behind . One of their favourite tactics is to wander round a Town where things are happening and simply attack people they think might be right wing ,I’ve seen it happen in Brighton !
Their tactics for me mirror that of facist’s hence my comment !
That’s a lot different from have a meet with Charlie Sargeant and C18 in the 90’s and smashing them to fuck !


#899

Jonny Mac works for the people who really run America,they dont like Trump because he isnt one of them .
Jonny Mac is the person that found the Syrian rebel groups aka ISIS which Hillary then armed to the teeth !
Trumps reign is being sabotaged from within and without it’s quite un heralded in the History of US politics ,they will either out him or kill him but he wont serve 4 years as president !!


#900

There isn’t such a thing as a white only area of most Urban cities in the UK ,Im from London its always been a melting pot in my day us white boys mixed with Irish /Indian/Caribbean lads and whilst racism was far more rampant in those days the far right never took hold in our communities . People mixed in ,people assimilated both ways for example I can speak Jamaican Patois the only colour prejudice was a favouring of red and white and yellow and blue .
What Cristo refers to is a latent resentment of groups who are dropped in to our midst straight from war torn areas of the world and cause immediate and violent havoc in the community .
They are resented for the violence they cause ,and for the priority they are shown by the housing authorities ,does this make them all racist ?
This priority means that the Social housing groups look to evict old people from their lifelong homes into smaller units after their partners die ,needless to say they resent this too.
If your from Islington and your young you have to either be a millionaire or move if u wish to get married and have children. People arent too chuffed with this either it doesn’t make them bad people . As a socialist I welcome anyone who wants to be a part of the community but we have reached a point in the UK where working class people regardless of colour or religion are being pissed on from all sides !


#901

Yeah, I’d say it does. By taking bad interactions by a few actors and using it to paint an entire group, I think that’s a pretty textbook definition of racism.

We certainly have but only one subset of the working class feels it necessary to piss (to borrow your turn of phrase) on the other and that’s the white working class. Nobody gave a shit about the collapse of the black working class or Hispanic working class. They suffer the same way, they work the same lousy jobs, have the same economic anxieties (on top of the institutional racism from police and other law enforcement agencies). It’s not incumbent on minorities to learn more or empathize more with the white working class, it’s the white narrative that dominates media discourse. It’s incumbent on the white working class to set aside their prejudices.


#902

America isnt the UK Josh fella !
Id have agreed with your text book descriptions 20 years ago but I don’t live in a text book world .
Uncontrolled direct dumping of people from war torn or extreme deprivation areas has caused massive problems to the beleaguered masses of all colours and religions in London ,and whilst there are a lot of success stories only a fool would deny that its brought huge problems with it and they are ongoing .
Only the strong make it to this country from these areas not the weak and when you dump people who have the previous week had to fight for a loaf of bread into the urban people of London who are hardly shrinking violets ,they quickly realise they are stronger than those around them and then the shenanigans start .

er isnt that racist too ? We should all set aside prejudice !


#903

I take this to be generally true, but I think there is one distinction to be made: most people do not assume that white crime, black crime, or Muslim crime is reflective of the entire ethnic group. What we are talking about here is a group of people coming into the country new, who are seen to be, erroneously or not, as high offenders. Many years ago, a council estate was built in my home town and it was populated with people brought in from high crime areas of Manchester, and once they arrived crime went up. Is it prejudice to show concern about that population being there? I think not. It certainly didn’t mean that we all felt people from Manchester were criminals.

For me, the trick here is not to attack these people for being racist (either they are and don’t care, or aren’t and find it offensive or even just plain baffling that you would call them that in the first place), surely it’s better to unite people by focusing on what they have in common which is economics, because actually, it’s through economics that both groups are made to suffer. (And I’m certainly not advocating turning a blind eye to racism).

I get your point about the silence of white working classes when black or Hispanic communities were / are under threat, that is indeed an hypocrisy, but not an unsurprising one since most people don’t get upset until something touches them personally, but it could also be an American thing, because working class communities in Britain have a strong tradition of fighting racism and standing up to bullies, such as when the East End of London saw off Oswald Mosely and his black shirts. I don’t even think the rise of UKIP here in Britain has much to do with race really, but disaffection, and a feeling that they’ve been deserted by parties which do have strong anti-racist traditions. If there is one thing I despite Tony Blair for (ok forgetting the war) is what he did to erode the concept of class. Now its all about fucking race instead. But perhaps we are taking at cross purposes because things might be very different in the States, and my defence of what Cristo and Drayton have said, may only apply to my own country, although i still disagree with your textbook definition of racism.

EDIT - I do actually agree with your definition just with caveats.


#904

It’s probable that I’m talking more about the US since I live here and not in the UK. I won’t pretend to have any expertise about the UK beyond the small Westminster bubble where I lived and worked for a few months.