The U.S. Politics thread - turd sandwich it is


#725

You misunderstand me, i don’t want the UK to implement such a strategy, i’d like everywhere to operate in this manner. And whats wrong with taking the logic of PAYE and applying it to business on a bigger scale…Profits of less than 100,000 means you pay 15%, 100-250k you pay 20% and so on. It would still leave businesses who wanted to invest plenty of scope to do so whilst reflecting the concept that those businesses who have more will pay more. I think that’s entirely reasonable logic.


#726

Insults without adding anything to the discussion. Must be a conversation with a Spaniard.


#727

Hey hey hey, what is this, the Wenger thread? I am learning a lot here don’t go off topic.


#728

Both are very centrist economically speaking. A lot of the left was upset at the way Obama worked with the insurance industry and even was seen as capitulating to them over the public exchanges in the ACA. On social issues both are fairly far to the left if you consider the political spectrum to be a relative social construct (which it is), instead of hard science (which it’s not).


#729

Quantite Easing is keynesian economics, tbf.


#730

This is all fine until you realise that without fairly taxing business then there is no money to spend on infrastructure, or to rebuild shattered communities. Then you end up having to find the money by cutting infrastructure and attacking shattered communities still further. Eventually you run out of things to cut.

Global suicide, to use your expression, is to continue with the same neoliberal logic that led to the 2008 crash, knowing that when the next crash comes we wont be able to repeat the bail out.


#731

*With a half-American. Who knows through growing up there and doing his complete schooling there what a strange and misplaced hate for socialism is taught and prevalent there.

Socialism and fascism are related like Mathieu Flamini and midfield play are related. Just because an abomination of it has come into being doesn’t mean that midfield play is a bad thing.


#732

a bit of a steep generalisation tbh.

Totally publicly funded infrastructure projects tend to be mismanaged and routinely go over budget but in any case even now in the UK under the conservative government there are a ton of publicly and privately funded infrastructure projects in development, major include HS2 and Heathrow runway expansion (Which Corbyn is against because of enviromental concerns ).

Interesting that you use the term “fairly” too. That’s a term that isn’t necessarily conceptually certain. What is fair? I believe in equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.

Where are these ‘shattered communities’ too? Are you talking about the UK or the West


#733

Fair enough. I think that the illustration I posted looks at it from a totalitarian regime vs anarchy perspective as opposed to the traditional right vs left on issues. To be honest I was just using it to illustrate the horseshoe model of political ideologies and didn’t pay too much attention to the content… and I should have. I’ve heard the argument that socialism and fascism have more in common than there are differences… but it’s a silly argument.


#734

I think @NeedCoffee just meant to post some historical stuff. I am left-wing myself, but i was interested in what he posted because i like history.


#735

Lol it’s telling that socialism is such a negative buzzword yet half of legislation passed here is some type of socialist reform. Americans get brain washed early here don’t they?


#736

Yes and no. McCarthyism is alive and well. However, I don’t think brainwashing is the right term. I also don’t think that blindness to cultural/political biases is solely an American problem. Nor is the inability to critically analyze why you believe what you believe. We just tend to be the loudest kid in the classroom, so to speak.


#737

No it definitely isn’t solely an American problem, but from the outside it seems like a far bigger issue for your nation than many others. Look at healthcare. I swear almost every single Western nation bar none has socialised healthcare, correct me if I’m wrong on that. Apart from the USA of course, because it’s socialist? Because you shouldn’t have to pay for other people’s health care? This might be totally unfair, but it feels like there’s this ridiculous arrogance amongst a large portion of your population, an unwillingness to recognise that something that works for the entire Western world (and many other places I hasten to add) is something that is a good idea.


#738

You’ll get no argument from me. I know why we hate socialists and I still don’t get it. Our healthcare system is like anything else in this country. It’s all about redistributing wealth to the top. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class is quickly and quietly disappearing.


#739

First Red Scare.


#740

Just a question. What’s the average trip to the emergency room there cost? Or what’s the cost of a hospital bed for the night?


#741

Luca fella,signing a bill that prevents Monsanto from being prosecuted for their crimes and causing death and destruction in the middle east isnt left wing , its far far right wing . He and Hillary are War criminals and traitors and should be tried for their crimes .


#742

So Obama and Clinton are nazi? Read this:

http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/

He would be one of the most “left-wing” politician in Europe.


#743

I dunno about that.
The Democrats aren’t much more left wing than the Tories.


#744

Sorry Luca , most of those so called acheivements are either NOT acheivements or just spun to make it seem like they are .
Lets go through them
1 . Obamacare was badly thought out and hasnt worked,but an honorable attemtp il grant you
2. yup he increased the national debt by giving large wads of cash to big business
3 Give me a break this bill was watered down to be almost meaningless
4 That worked well didnt it ,!
5 Ditto
6 Did he , ive never seen any evidence of that
7 dont know abt this but giving billions to big corporations so they can sack nmore workers doesnt smell ofm succesess to me
8 he should have let them die and then he should have nationalised the fed
9 big deal !
10 yes he got rid of Ghaddafi and now Libya is a failed state where islamic extremists rule and genicide is happening on an industrial scale
11 told mubarak to go ,then helped overhthrew the democratically elected leader be4cause they didnt like him before installing a Mubarakalike ,fucking reat that one
12 yeah right tell that to those bieng held at gitmo
13 your fucking kidding me
14 who cares the rich go to uni the poor go to jail
15 no idea what this is

too bored to go on Obama was and is a cunt and he should be in jail for war crimes in Syria and Libya and the whore hillary should be with him