Yeah you’re right actually, “we” definitely aren’t in Africa and Asia plundering resources.
THAT LITERALLY NEVER HAPPENS THESE DAYS
That’s an entirely different discussion and not one that I’d disagree with you on.
Clearly what my post was referring to is the fact that our countries aren’t over there knicking obelisks.
We’re not plundering their tombs, we’re plundering oil wells now instead.
It doesn’t fucking matter which one it is, its all part of the same imperialist behaviour. And it’s imperialist behaviour that has provoked the discussion about whether the West should give back shit that has been stolen a long time ago. It is not an entirely different discussion by any stretch.
My point is that we’re still fucking robbing countries like this for their shit, it’s the same pattern of behaviour, a pattern of behaviour you’re talking about as if it belongs solely to the past.
It clearly fucking doesn’t.
I don’t get the sentiment of the first paragraph. It’s something that is used more often in this type of discussions. ‘It was so long ago’. The aftermath of the period in which these artefacts were required are still visible today. A lot of African independent days came 10-20 years after WW II. It is still relevant history.
2 Likes
I haven’t researched it to be precise, no. I know that we hold a lot of Chinese artefacts which would almost certainly have been destroyed under Mao. China doesn’t look after its heritage at all, even now. Our best possessions in the British Museum come from Egypt and Mesopotamia, two locations which I doubt would have preserved their items well, not least due to wars, which isn’t always their own fault of course (I mean would we be wise to return the Rosetta Stone?) Museums also purchase things, which is why you end up with say lots of Matisse in Baltimore which is a weird place for it to be. I think after a certain time period things simply belong to where they are currently housed. I would return special items to countries capable of guaranteeing the well being of artefacts if we had good diplomatic reasons to do so. I also think it’s nice that our British Museum is free and enables people from all over the world to view them.
7 Likes
That’s true.
Maybe I’m a hypocrite but I agree in us not turning over the stuff to the Chinese.
The way they’re transforming Hong Kong for example into yet another soulless pseudo-capitalist place like Shanghai or something is ridiculous, I hate how the CCP is wiping out Chinese culture.
So maybe the distinction should be whether the government’s truly care for the items I guess.
I dunno
Well exactly. Obviously we were wrong to steal their stuff at the point of a gunboat during the Opium Wars but China is a country which is wiping out Tibetan culture and Turkistan culture, and bulldozes its own historic sites. They are forfeit in my opinion any right to their ancient artefacts in our possession. I’m sure the artists who made them would rather we have them anyway. We gave them Hong Kong lol, and as you rightly point out look what they have done with that, the people of Hong Kong way prefer British control and would have us back in a heartbeat. Correctly.
3 Likes
I wish UN owned a country where we could dump all the disputed stuffs and be rid of constant discussions.
It sounds ridiculous but can really solve loads of issues.
Yeah I was in Hong Kong for work a while back and all the native Hong Kong born fucking hated the Chinese and loved the British, they would bang on about how they’d love to be back under British rule.
I love Hong Kong, it’s a very special place.
1 Like
Who exactly are we to decide that for them? Nice breach of one countries sovereignty. I guess we aren’t done with that shit lol.
1 Like
Better give it back
2 Likes
Were are those treasures now? Are they exhibited in Scandinavian museums?
Yeah we’ve got a ton of Viking stuff in a load of museums in Copenhagen. Much of it are Viking artefacts but plenty of loot and plunder.
Than the British(?) have every right too put in a claim to get those back.
Why don’t you then?
Historical facts right there.
Trumps about in livingroom
1 Like
We have enough loot and plunder already 
But I’d love to see the shitstorm when we start asking for our stuff back, while not returning other countries stuff.
1 Like
I will try to give a little insight in my thinking. I’m from a former colony. I’m not white. The reason that my country exist in the current form is because it’s a Western creation. In that sense there is nothing authentic about the country of my parents (I’m born in the Netherlands). Which in my opinion sucks. The way how the people who were brought to work in the colonies were treated is well documented. However there has been some history before/during the colonial period started. One of the symbols of that are these artefacts. To see these artefacts in British/Western museums is a slight reminder to that period in time and how it came about that they eventually are presented in the museum. Take into account that the end of the colonial period isn’t that far in the past. These type of things are a constant reminder of the history of myself and my people.
To be clear. I do feel blessed to be born here and people could think; stop thinking in such a victim rol. But that history is real. That history just sucks. The return of these artefacts can aide in the recovery of the identity of former colonies. Besides the practical uses like potential increase in tourism etc. Right now that shit is representing an awful time from my perspective.
5 Likes
It’s legitimately complicated.
Take the Rosetta Stone. Does an Ancient Pagan Egyptian relic belong to a modern Islamic state? Since its creation Egypt has been Hellenistic, Macedonian, Roman, Byzantine, Arabic, Ottoman, French, British and Arabic again. I guess you could say a Celtic British relic is ours because most Anglo-brits still have a lot of Celtic DNA so that our people have a kind of right to it, and it’s presumably the same in Egypt, but then I wouldn’t particularly dispute the Vikings displaying British relics in their museums because of our shared history. I can’t unwrite The Viking history from our history. Egypt can’t unwrite the British Protectorate from theirs. I suppose I don’t feel resentful to the Vikings. Maybe that’s an important factor. I honestly can’t think why a modern Islamic state would even want the Rosetta Stone (other than prestige or tourism), whereas I could understand modern dispossessed native Americans say wanting a stolen Totem Pole. The latter would at least potentially feel a certain dignity in its return and it might heal some wounds.
The British Museum did return a pair of Benin Bronzes to Nigeria for £75 and Nigeria don’t even publicly display them. This is an important point. Now I’m sure Egypt would display the Rosetta Stone but would they look after it to the extent The British Museum does?
Legally I don’t think The British Museum is obliged to do shit as relics only have to be returned if they were stolen after 1970 according to UNESCO. And its not even clear if the Rosetta Stone was stolen. It was discovered by the French during the time of Napoleon and they agreed to give it to the British. If Egypt was French when it was found what then? The only imperative to return is a moral one, and I wouldn’t give it back to Egypt. As far as I am concerned I would say Fuck off Egypt on the basis of how they treat their Christian minority.
4 Likes
Yeah man, I feel really sorry for Hong Kong. It was a swamp before we had it, and now we handed it back to a shit show of a government, who will wreck the place. It will be overrun with Han Chinese and Hong Kong culture will be ruined. They’ll eventually lose democracy too.
1 Like