Strange culture, tbh.
Maybe it’s a British thing but listening to brash and brazen points of view is enough to get one’s back up.
It’s brash and brazen to you. Not to us.
Pity clear honesty is not valued by your culture. Which I find, a strange culture.
Mate, if I was honest about everything I’d ever seen and what I’d felt, I’d have been sacked from work 100 times over and probably disowned by all my loved ones.
It takes class to have respect for those around you. It’s easy being miserable and shooting from the hip. It’s more difficult being tactful and amicable.
RvC doesn’t have that. In spite of everything Arsenal were (or more importantly weren’t doing) behind the scenes, this is clearly a situation where Gooners favour club over player.
1 Like
Ridiculous comparison. How are their situations relatable to RvP’s in any way?
1 Like
Helder won nothing of note while with Arsenal. Went through 3 different managers, IIRC.
Overmars left Arsenal in 2000 after 2 barren seasons with the club.
Bergkamp was frozen out between late 1999 and summer 2001. We all, in fact, thought the cup final in 2001 was his swansong.
Point is, these 3 guys had plenty of reason to speak up, make cutting remarks about the club. They didn’t. The opinion that “it’s a Dutch thing” doesn’t sit too well with me. Maybe van Persie was just a cunt? 
Dude. I don’t know about your example what you have to do to deserve that all.
I am not saying it is okay to insult someone. Call someone an insult or tell them to feck off. Of course, this has got consequences.
But, all RvP did was unequivocally tell the truth on why he decided to leave.
He said the Club couldn’t match his ambition and they have different visions of their goals.
That is fair enough to say. And I see zero problem with that.
I will end this “debate” on an anecdote:
Some ten years ago I was young and started an internship at a London marketing firm. Coming from Holland, the hierarchical British company set up did not know what would come to them for the next 6 months.
Dutch companies generally are much more egalitarian. And lower ranked employees would tell a higher up without flinching if something is a good or bad idea and they so to speak, speak their mind quite easily towards any hierarchical rank.
So you can imagine how that went for the first few weeks. However, at the end of my internship I was praised and appreciated for being straight forward, honest, hands on and humorous. Even though at times I might have offended some, confused others and annoyed them. At the end of the road they all respected me for it and to my mind, even if it is 0,1%, changed them a little bit.
Glen Helder wasn’t great. Arguably wasn’t good enough for Arsenal at the time.
Overmars talked shit about Arsenal multiple times after he left. I basically hated him for years cos of it.
Bergkamp is just a legend.
1 Like
It is not an opinion when it is a well established fact that the Dutch are the way I describe them to be, being one myself. If my own experience of being one of them isn’t sufficient for you, then there are numerous books written on the cultural differences between nations in this world. Verify as you wish. Or just come to Holland and be told so in your face by the first Amsterdammer you come across.
2 years where Bergkamp was frozen out, compared to 8 years of Van Persie winning no league title at Arsenal.
What a comparison eh. Wondered if Bergkamp wouldn’t have gone Dutch honesty on your snakey ass after 8 years of not winning the league and being frozen out for parts of it.
By the way, Bergkamp left on bad terms at Ajax - undoubtedly because he was a bit of a dick and spoke his mind a bit too Dutch way.
I think you’re right about the percentages here. That sort of attitude is only going to work at 0.1% of all British firms
It will work at much more percentage, even at British firms. You didn’t read comprehensively. Even if it changed every person 0,1% there, it would be for the better.
Let’s contextualize.
8 years of no league title, 2 actual seasons of playing, 6 seasons with a major sicknote.
When it came to time to shine for Arsenal and repay the faith shown in him, he decided that only 18 months of full pelt playing for Arsenal was enough.
Oh, and throw in a remark about Arsenal being unambitious as he left.
Bottom line, cunt.
2 Likes
It won’t, but OK.
They were. Pretty clear for most to see.
What a cunt for telling the truth.
Do the British or the Americans prefer liars to honest people? Almost we would get the idea to think so David.
RVP had our lack of capability as a title challenge, age and back catalogue of injuries to way up on his transfer.
Plus playing for a legendary manager and real chance of glory.
Was very happy for him winning it. That goal against Villa was just a brilliant way for him too claim his medal.
3 Likes
They were unambitious. That’s not fine. It’s also not fine to bring it up when you’re leaving.
No one else has. As @shamrockgooner said, Overmars did it well after he left (although that has piqued my interest somewhat, lol). RvC did it at a time when Gooners were unanimously waiting for him to sign a contract extension.
What RvC did was the Hollywood style “fuck you very much” Dirty Harry goodbye. Even that only works if your boss is an arsehole (on this occasion, Arsenal were not)
They were an arsehole by being unambitious cunts.
RvP just told how it is. Well done to him.
Guess we are a little bit Hollywood over here then. You’e in for a treat when you visit Amsterdam.
Hardly a well done. You’d see 0.1% of Gooners saying well done.
I don’t think I’ll ever visit Amsterdam. Always had an aversion. If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren’t people from Holland called Holes?
I don’t mind, you can call us whatever you want.
Of course you have an aversion for honesty.
Not really. I just call out unclassy behaviour when I see it.