This was a really good article I read on Stones development from a couple months ago.
He’s hiding behind the strong arm of Pep, simple as that.
whilst Holding is shown up by the limp arm of wenger!
It’s very easy to pass judgement on Holding, Chambers etc when under the so called tutelage of the likes of Wenger.
Stones may be better, however, he’s ahead in his development and is playing in an incredibly dominant team, he too has been where they are not too long ago. Yes he has seemingly got through it but that doesn’t mean they can’t either with a better manager and tactical set up.
I’d much rather Holding be out on loan rather than slowly being poisoned by a distinct lack of football guidance.
I remember when Stones was the joke of the league last season.
Yes and he’s played about 900 minutes this campaign and hardly had to defend due to their tactics but that’s enough to prove he’s da bess!! He was dropped too. I just think it’s not the right time to come out with the I told you so routine.
The only thing I’d say is that players like Monreal, Kosh, Per and some others have looked good regardless of Wenger’s system. I’m not disputing that Holding’s performances (and Chambers for that matter) would be better served elsewhere and make the assessment fairer, I just feel that there isn’t actually a whole lot of quality with Holding anyway. And Arsenal fans saw two or three good performances and suddenly proclaimed him as good as someone as talented as Stones (who himself had a difficult season last year, but he paid his dues at Everton and continues to improve).
How was he dropped? I swear he got injured?
He did get injured
None of them were thrown into the deep at the age of 20. They were already established and well taught defenders. It feels kind of premature to compare their careers to Holding’s. And despite Wenger’s shortcomings, more so due to the lesser competition at the time, they were always part of the 3rd/4th best team in England.
Holding is part of a fully dilapidated team, that even average players of Chamberlain or Walcott’s ability consider below their level and want out. A team that is certainly lacking in quality in every department compared to it’s rivals. Completely disorganized, different set up every game, unreliable and error-prone midfield defensive unit, players played out of position all the time, no one to look up to or learn from because everyone is made a fool every now and then despite their experience, age or quality and everyone looks out of place and confused at least once in 5 games. He did get a great few games at the beginning of last season and I don’t feel he got undeserved credit for it. Since then he has had to swim through shit and I feel there is a manager in a boat near him using a paddle to keep him in the shit.
Stones wasn’t at all all that impressive at Everton as well as last season at City, he was very error prone and ill-disciplined tactically, giving the ball away at critical areas and making shocking decisions. I’ll reserve judgement on him too until he first-teams throughout a season or two for City.
Again, I’m not comparing Holding to Stones. One of them is more experienced, tested and valued. But I don’t see a whole lot of talent setting them apart and it’s the circumstances, tuition and opportunities for growth that will make one of them much better and successful than the other.
Care to comment on Stones’ latest performance?
He didn’t have a great game and his form has certainly dipped from his injury. Yet it’s abundantly clear that he’s a more talented player than Rob Holding. People often believe that playing in Pep’s system makes you look better as a defender but it really isn’t true. His teams are often exposed defensively because of the importance of their role being less about defensive solidity and more about creating moves and attacks from their defensive positions. Stones is not in some ultra protected system which makes him look like a world class defender.
If you’re going to do this whole “comment on his latest performance” thing you should probably be defending someone who hasn’t had more poor/average games than good ones in an Arsenal shirt.
Balance my friend. Balance.
Actually you were the one to quickly jump in this thread when Holding had a bad game and bring up the Stones thing, I’m assuming so you could have an I told you so moment, just the precedent you set yourself really. Just wondering what you had to say now that his purple patch is over and Stones is back to being the mistake prone dedender we all know and love.
Really unfair to criticize him. He is a raw youngster put in a team out of shape and not coached properly.
I’m just curious why do you have the impression that Holding is an average talent? He looked an impressive talent by all accounts last season. This season he’s clearly struggling. I am not a good judge of defensive talents but it seems weird to me this hard line of Holding being a mediocre talent, when he certainly seemed all but that last season.
I don’t think he’s a mediocre talent at all. He’s just not better than Stones and no matter who coaches him, I don’t believe he ever will be. I think Stones ceiling is significantly higher than Holding.
I read over this thread quickly, so apologies, it was average not mediocre that you used, but it was this post (and the tone of the others) that I think I had in mind.
He’d be gaining experience in one of the PL’s tightest defences…
Yeah, until he comes along