And this is how we ended up with Brexit and how Germany turned to fascists
I’m expressing an opinion @Calum. I respect others opinion, but as with other threads and people on here, I will challenge others views and I will try to put across a compelling argument to substantiate my view.
For instance, I fully respect the fact that you think Scotland should be independent from the UK. Do I agree with you? No. Why, because of the factual position that Scotland benefits from being part of the UK and collectively, I think we are stronger united than divided. I am not saying your opinion is wrong, just that I disagree with you.
What did refusing to vote for the ‘least bad option’ had to do with Brexit?
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Brexit was a failure of the establishment and the mainstream political parties. People voted for Brexit as a protest, because they wanted some sort of change, and the other side played on people’s disillusionment, dissatisfaction, and prejudice, and convinced people with the lie that things would be better. The reality is that by voting for Brexit, this country voted to be poorer.
The least bad option in the Brexit scenario was to vote Remain. But the country sleepwalked into voting for Brexit. I fear we are seeing history repeat itself.
I agree disillusionment played a role but I dispute the referendum was a circumstance of choosing the least bad option. People on the average genuinely believed on which fence of the referendum they fell on. The whole thing got so toxic because of such a mentality.
My rationale is that ‘least bad’ in the Brexit scenario was the status quo.
As bad as Labour are, the idea of voting for Reform as a protest is absurd.
I could certainly see myself voting Green/Lib Dem/Corbyn instead, but never Reform.
Same here, Greens or Corbyn’s new party are getting my vote next time, unless the Lib Dems have a chance of bringing it home in my constituency (which might well happen).
Lib Dems are in favour of rejoining the EU, if they play that card at the GE they could wipe Labour out.
You only need to go a few posts up in this thread to see that I know exactly where Reform stand on issues I care about. The only credit I can give them is that Farage voted against assisted dying. They are against the things I care about and would damage all of them.
But that’s also true of Labour. And what they, their supporters and you don’t seem to get is that “the less bad option" doesn’t get my vote and I’m not the only one who feels like that. Labour are a disgrace and I will vote against them at any opportunity. (For that matter, if my profession decides to ballot on striking, I’ll vote for it and go on strike despite the fact I don’t think my pay and conditions are that bad just to help pile on to this government.) And when they’re wiped out and Reform are in, I’ll go ahead and vote against them too.
I will vote for whoever I think has a chance of acting in my interest and if there’s nobody then I won’t vote. I will never vote for someone because they’re less shit than the alternative.
I did. I voted for the party that immediately cut fuel allowances, threatened (and will still go through with) making the lives of the disabled more difficult, continued the police state practice of banning protest groups, reversed a promise not to raise taxes, stoked further intolerance in society and continued to line the pockets of the super rich.
Rather than feeling empowered by doing my bit for the greater good of my country, I’m left with a feeling of emptiness, regret and a disdain for the democratic process.
If people want to opt-out to avoid this feeling that they’ve shot themselves in the foot, I can’t blame them. I’m still hoping for that political saviour, most of us are, I’d love to go to the voting booth excited that there a box I can tick that will bring hope back to the UK. For some Reform offer that hope that “your life will improve once we’ve kicked all the immigrants out because they are what are stopping you from affording the life you feel you deserve”. It’s a lie of course and all those Reform voters will only realise that once they seen Farage and his racist chums make things worse for everyone, because they are cut from the same cloth as the Tories and the modern Labour party.
I often wonder whether, like Brexit, it’s a pain we’re going to have to get through before the penny drops with the masses and there’s a genuine offer of a “hope vote” next time round. It’s all rather dystopian right now. I’m rather hoping that Starmer has been sloppy with his taxes and gets voted out by Labour Party members. I’m clutching at straws at this point.
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Announced a radical immigration policy.
Yes, actually radical this time. Abolishment of indefinite leave to remain. Even making strong reference to Boriswave in jab to the Tories. One of the reasons obviously for the reference is that by 2029 the Boriswave will have ILR. Other messaging includes prioritising welfare for British citizens only.
I have doubts whether they have the stones to go through with such a policy or walk some of this back. This would be a change on a incredible scale which right wingers from my observation are if I may be crude: ‘too pussy’ to do.
Detail is lacking (as per usual from Farage) but I don’t think that’s point. This is definitely aimed at shoring up a voter base they’re gathering. Which I think from that angle will work. Especially Tory voters who felt ‘betrayed’. They’ll love this stuff.
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Just woke up and misread that as “racial immigration policy” at first 
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Reform will very likely become the next leaders, via a coalition.
The problem with politics in this country is that for some reason left/center parties are held to a much higher standard than right wing ones.
Both amongst the electorate and the media. They’re never in long enough to implement any real change, because they’re never given enough time.
If Arteta can be given 6 years to run a football club without success. Then surely Labour should be given 5 to implement their manifesto too.
The problem with the left is they’re all too fractured and miss out on the bigger picture.
Everyone’s free to make their own voting choices, but I genuinely don’t see how voting for people with zero influence is going to get you what you want.
Fwiw, I don’t like current labour either. I thought they would be better than this and I’m disappointed at their performance.
They’re like a father who was ostracized from their kids because of their mother, and now they’re reunited after 14 years, he’s still not stepping up.
I cannot see this going through myself, Farage doing as Farage does, makes grandiose claims/pledges with no substance. This is like the Boris bus claiming £350m to the NHS.
IF Reform managed to win an election (and I can see the possibility), Farage wouldn’t have a plan or know what to do. Just like when his side won the Brexit vote and he quickly disappeared.
Reality is that mass immigration is a problem amongst the voters and it has not been addressed by Tories or Labour. Illegal migration needs to be stopped, but Farage’s policy is unworkable too.
I am an immigrant - never claimed benefits and paid a heap in taxes over the years. If Farage wants to deny foreign nationals from being able to claim benefits, then will he also be taking less taxes from foreigners?
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When I read through what had been announced my first thought was that they haven’t thought this through, and then that even if they are in power, they’ll never get it done.
Just like in America, there will be legal challenges all over the place, just as Labour have found with this “one in, one out” scheme of theirs. We’ll have the whole nonsense with judges being branded “enemies of the people” in the press. But the bottom line is they won’t be able to do it.
It would be hard for a politically talented leadership to make happen, and I’m strongly of the view that whatever else Reform are, they’re not competent.
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Just bad not well thought out policy, strategic error from Reform.
They trying to tailor the policy to black and brown migrants from developing nations but they have to broaden it to hide they plan of attack so in their plans they capture public sector key workers, normal staff for business, aupairs and foreign wives which affects British citizens all demographics and social class.
Similar to Trump, unfairness in immigration generates huge mainstream opposition
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Reform will get a ton of votes purely because of how bad Labour and Tories are. They’ll get all the Brexiteers votes as well because they are so thick they can’t remember how much they got stitched up last time.
The Boriswave was a terrible thing for anyone thinking of voting reform.
And the Tories deserve every bit of stick they get for it.
What a moron Boris was.
Good on reform for attacking them on this and I hope it contributes to further death of that party.
Of course they will do it in a very jarring way that will have consequences for many sectors, however.
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All going well in your patch @RockyMaivia
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Amazing. My patch as well. The council Kent deserves. Definitely not the one it needs.
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