Mikel Arteta


#242

Messi would have achieved that under any manager.
Credit to Pep to put a system that suited Messi to the core but heck had Pep Guardiola not exist, that wouldn’t mean Messi wouldn’t be what he is now.


#243

So what you are saying is that the transformation Messi undertook under the management of Pep would have happened no matter who was manager of Barcelona?


#244

Yes


#245

Then I think that goes to show how far you are willing to go to discredit the brilliance of Pep.


#246

So as per you where would Messi be without Pep?


#247

Ummm what about last season.

Trophyless, 3rd and lost FA cup to Arsenal (with supposedly inferior manager & squad)


#248

Arsene Wenger :arteta:


#249

Absolute bullshit

Wenger has already shown multiple times that he has produced similar results with likes of Denilson in the squad.

HE WON FA CUP BEATING PEP GUARDIOLA


#250

So because Pep had one season in his career where he wasn’t successful it’s suddenly an indictment on his quality as a manager? Yet you champion the cause of a man who went 9 years without a trophy and has gone 14 without a league title lol.

Every manager from Arrigo Sacchi, Fabio Capello, Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho have had stints of their career where they didn’t win things for a variety of reasons.

Pep is a victim of his own success. In much the same way Messi and CR7 are.


#251

How about Luis Enrique easily replicating the similar success to Pep.


#252

I beg to differ sir.


#253

Enrique doesn’t get enough credit for his work at Barcelona.


#254

Calm down chief, was clearly a joke :slight_smile:


#255

That season he was slightly above level playing field to his rivals.
His last 2 leagues he has had only one rival Real Madrid. Bundesliga had no rivals for Pep.

The one season he had few rivals and close in terms of quality of players, he couldn’t do well.

And then he gave his squad an expensive makeover and yet again he has talents other managers could dream of.

AGAIN, I am not saying Pep is a shit manager or something.
All I am saying is that he is dependent on quality players.

I don’t think it is fair to consider him the best manager because I find it unfair on his rival manager as they always have to compete against a giant per say.
It’s a David versus Goliath; and we are praising Goliath for walking gracefully.

Only one manager had the means to compete with him and that was Mourinho and we all know he is a fraud.
And even he won La Liga ahead of Pep once.


#256

I would also point out that players who play under him almost universally laud him for their personal development and the management of Pep - people are still missing the damn point when saying he “needs a certain set of players” - he is the PAR king and like I said, it really isn’t even close.

To me, Fergie still stands as the best of all time b/c he was so massively and consistently successful - just bc he had financial advantages (most were made during his time) doesn’t mean he wasn’t great, it just means he was great in the top, top tier.


#257

No they aren’t. Messi isn’t wearing some high tech shoes to make him do better than his fellow professionals. Ronaldo isn’t on steroids to give him an advantage.

When 22 players are on field, they have equal chance to shine yet Messi & Ronaldo shine brighter because they rise up with their talent.

Yes players benefit from having quality teammates, but their contribution is always there

And yes Guardiola similarly benefits from having good players but at the same time his philosophy is so unique & genius that he is an asset to those players.

But unlike Messi & Ronaldo, the playing field is not level amongst managers.


#258

Sorry my bad it was more 250million

Edit: https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-city/transfers/verein/281


#259

Using this if you replace Pep with say Kloop where would City be in the league?


#260

Fuck me no . Arteta as manager …


#261

I think you’re completely missing my point. They are victims of their own success because when they perform below the standards that they themselves have set, they get much more criticism than is actually warranted.