Mesut Özil (10)


#4865

There aren’t many Christians in China. Muslims are mostly Uighur and a Turkic speaking people in the west of China.

Buddhists in Tibet have had their fair share of Chinese oppression and violence. So it’s not only Muslims who suffer from the communist crackdown on religion.


#4866

There is of course states backed and supported by religions who support the death of people who have communist beliefs.


#4867

The few that are aren’t in re-education camps though, or am I wrong?

That’s the point clearly. The way Muslims are being treated there is different to other religions, and that’s my point. That treatment is for Muslims, not everyone there who is religious.

I’m also not saying other religions are necessarily treated well, just that they aren’t all getting the gulag treatment.


#4868

They also torn down the Christian/Catholic churches in China, arrested quite a number of parishioners, and banned the Christmas celebration.


#4869

DO THEY KNOW IT’S CHRISTMAS TIME AT ALL (in Beijing)

Seriously though, that whole situation is vile, completely wrong.


#4870

Perhaps they are. I don’t think either you or I know the answer to that. What I do know though is that every religion in China gets persecuted and oppressed.

Who says there are no Buddhists or Christians in these re-education camps? You also mention millions that are in these camps. I doubt that it’s millions.

Look, no one is saying it’s good. Obviously it’s not, but it’s not exclusively Muslims who are being harshly treated. As I said there have been Buddhists murdered and imprisoned by the communist Chinese in Tibet and elsewhere. Pretty harsh punishment to my mind, to be murdered and oppressed as a Buddhist.

Then there are crackdowns on any other religion and you have no idea to the extent to which they get oppressed. Just because you read about Muslims in re-education camps doesn’t mean they’re the only ones.

With my initial post I tried to give an educated reply, where I post geographic and ethnic information and tell you about another religion which also got its share of brutal violence to endure for decades. Neither one of them deserves that treatment.


#4871

It was asked or suggested that practising of religion is totally banned, implying that this treatment perhaps wasn’t particularly wasn’t particularly noteworthy, surprising or different.

My point was that not all religious people or every religion or sect of a religion got treated this way in China. The point wasn’t that nobody else of other religions ever got treated appallingly, I’m not totally ignorant of goings on in China. Evidently, as I highlighted an issue people in this very thread weren’t aware of.

I’m not sure why you’re acting like you need to give me a lesson on the topic, because you seem to have objected to me highlighting the treatment of Muslims and saying that it wasn’t simply typical of how China treats all religious people across the board.


#4872

There are mosques in China. And religious people are not necessarily persecuted. The Tibet case is different because they’re claiming full autonomy and a religious rule which is degrees of different and it is an infected conflict with a fairly long history. Buddhist monks are seen on the streets. As long as it is not a political power play thing religion is not hard-banned and religious people are not chased down, when it happens it often has more sides to it than just religion, often politics.


#4873

Yeah, it is correct that this treatment isn’t particularly different. Because, it has happened to most religions inside of China. And in fact it is policy in Communist countries to “re-educate” people and diminish and dilute their beliefs. As it was in the USSR as well. Not just for Muslims, but for everyone. Buddhists got murdered for being buddhist. Buddhists got incarcerated for being Buddhist. Christians, I cannot verify any murders, but have been notably also barred from practicing their religion. Muslims ditto. The difference with say Christians in China is that Muslims are mostly an indigenous ethnic minority of turkic origin. There have been minor extremist tendencies amongst them and as a reaction the communist Chinese have retaliated harshly. Similarly to the Buddhist resistance in Tibet.

That is the thing. They are not being treated differently. I just give the example of Buddhists being treated rather harshly by being murdered, incarcerated and maimed at the hands of communist China for decades.

As for the re-education camps, these are most likely not solely used for Muslims. You say million of them are put in there and only Muslims and how unfair and harsh it is.

Which it is and it shouldn’t happen. Yet, is it only Muslims? And millions?

I wish all religions were left alone and everyone in general would leave each other alone, no matter what you believe in or skin colour you are or ethnicity you have got. We are all human.

Politics play a part both in Uighur areas in West China (who often feel more part of the Turkmen neighbouring areas) than Chinese as politics play a part in Tibet indeed as well. For every Buddhist monk you see walking around, so will you see a Muslim Uighur in traditional garb. I’d suspect in both cases it’s actively demotivated.


#4874

If there is a suspected political agenda there could be. That’s where they bother, not with regular people. The specific case of Uyghurs are similar to the Tibetans, there is a component of separatism involved, it’s different from a regular muslim who just chills out.


#4875

Many people just take, take, take and anything that threatens “their territory” is destroyed or driven out. But instead of pissing on trees we put up flags. The mentality of “If it’s not like me it’s competing for resources so must be killed” is pervasive. Some people are animals, plain and simple.


#4876

I’ll leave this here : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China


#4877

I’ve seen estimates that suggest that about 15% of the Chinese population is Buddhist, they didn’t murder and inacrcerate 15% of their population for their religion, that’s bullshit. The treatment of Tibetan Buddhists is horrific but has a large political bent, not simply for being Buddhist.

But perhaps this specific treatment of these Muslims is also politically motivated and not for religious reasons, so perhaps I’m a bit wide of the mark.

I’m bored of this discussion. I’m finding you to be unnecessarily condescending and that doesn’t make me want to have a discussion.

It was asked if religion was banned in China, I should have just said, “no religion is not banned, and not all religious people face this kind of treatment, so this is still noteworthy, even in a country that has a history of not always being friendly to religion.”


#4878

Yeah Xinjiang is trying to separate away from China, hence the hostility.


#4879

I think we’re missing the point here.

Will Ozil still have access to Fortnite in the gulag?


#4880

The state of this thread. Wow.

I think we need to get back to what really matters: Ozil’s body language and whether or not he pumps his fist as many times as Scott “Scotty” Parker or Mark “Hard Brexit” Noble when the team scores? And if he doesn’t why the fuck not??? Why doesn’t he care about our club? :arteta:


#4881

:poldi:


#4882

That made chuckle too :grin:


#4883

Bitterly disappointed by the whole situation with Özil tbh. A talent like him on a massive wage packet being absent from the line up every week, it’s just a shambles. If it was just injuries surely there’d be more clarity. There isn’t a single good reason to leave him out on a quality and performance level. Not one.


#4884

Another week and another game missed :thinking: