Liverpool thread


#2338

At your deathbed you look back on your life and you realise you spent a good chunk of it on trying to convince people of your opinion and visa versa and all it achieved is endless back and forth tugging about semantics, small sample sized statistics and opinion on what constitutes success or a wc manager. No one changes anyone’s mind on here about one’s taken stance and as such it’s an utter waste of precious time we have got on this planet.

Alas, welcome to the internet. OA’s microcosm as the hypothesis for life.


#2339

I don’t know his level of input but I know he isn’t in charge of setting budgets and if he was here we’d never have got those players. Which makes the part of your post about him choosing the level of ambition, somewhat redundant


#2340

Yes most people on their deathbed may regret spending too much time on the interwebz. Although debate is arguably more meaningful than fapping and facebook.


#2341

There hasn’t been a player that Liverpool have bought that has been out of our price range but what we haven’t done is replace the top quality players that have left with anything remotely close to their level.

Both Klopp and their board have showed a level of ambition, decisiveness and competence, that put both Wenger and our board to shame.


#2342

We can’t spend 300m in 2 seasons, which Liverpool have done. We also can’t realistically spend 75m on a CB or 50m on a GK and 100m on 2 midfielders, when our whole summer budget was 70m. Not all of their spending has paid off but the more mud you throw at the wall, the more will stick.

Wenger often wanted players he couldn’t get. The responsibility for not getting Mata, Suarez, Lemar, Mbappe, Martial, Aubameyang (earlier), Cavani etc over the line is with the board and Dick Law, not Wenger. When Wenger was backed by Dein we got deals over the line. If you don’t back the manager this is the result.

In turn Wenger was at fault for not shifting players earlier because he had a sense of loyalty to them.


#2343

I’m not sure if that’s true but, if it is, then Wenger shouldn’t have lied to the supporters about being able to compete with any club for the best players.
He also shouldn’t have wasted so much money on so many mediocre players for the same position, when the same money could have been spent on just a single top quality one.

I agree.
It is also the reason why so many of our best players left because they could see the weaknesses in our team and yet the under performing players kept getting picked.
This is what cost him his job.


#2344

Haha you even got someone who’s been reading this forum for years to finally register and make his first post here. Well done. (I’m not a native English speaker so pardon my writing anyway).

Me, I am originally a Rosicky fan, so I support whichever teams he played for and generally like the things associated with those teams, including Klopp. Needless to say it was a shit feeling when I knew he would come to Liverpool instead of Arsenal, but I still like him though.

Re the “Klopp is WC or not” debate. I always feel annoyed when people bring up stuff like “he has spent 500 million and won nothing” to undermine his achievements. Net spend aside, it’s not like he spent all that money in the winter transfer window of 2016 and had multiple failed attempts at trophies.

  • First half-season, he took Rodgers’ average squad to 2 finals without spending a penny. Lost one only on penalty as well.
  • The two following seasons, his major signings (pre VVD) were only Mane, Wijnaldum, Salah and Ox for only 30-40M each. That’s very modest spending, just barely higher than the likes of Everton. Took them to consecutive top 4 finishes while playing breathtaking football (mind you, top 4 in the big 6 era is much harder than the top 4 when there was only a big 4).
  • Then with VVD he got to the CL final, up against a historic Madrid team, and who knows what would have happened had Salah not gotten injured that night and Karius not fucked up massively, twice!
  • The following summer, yes he spent like 180 million to address the final holes in his squad and give it a go. But again, he has to face a collosus task in beating the best team in PL history (despite that, Liverpool are still now up there level on points with City with a game in hand).

If anything, Klopp has been actually very unlucky in terms of trophy, because despite making Liverpool punching over their weight for a long time, he kept facing some unprecedentedly strong opponents in the end. Any other season before 17/18, Liverpool would have been the runaway leaders by now. If people want to throw the “no trophies with that spending” argument at him, do it at the end of this season because he only actually spent money from the winter of 2018.

But even so, I still find that argument very lazy and short-sighted.


#2345

Absolutely brilliant first post, I really do hope you stay around and continue to post :clap:.


#2346
  • Looks at profile and sees Rosicky is their favourite player

:giroud3: This member is already awesome. Welcome to OA!


#2347

The person behind the transfers and scouting deserves more credit honestly… and some of it is sheer luck frankly… hitting jackpot with Suarez and selling Coutinho at absolute king’s ransom and at BY FAR peak value were massive, massive for them… then hitting gold with Sane and Salah and Firmino… VVD was value and smart tactical, but expensive so can’t really say that was gigantic coup.


#2348

I feel so special


#2349

Haha thanks. These days I’m still watching the “Rosicky vs.” videos on youtube regularly for enjoyment. Have to say the more knowledge I have about football, the more I realize how under-appreciated he was back then. Advances play so much vertically while being aesthetically pleasant.


#2350

These are excuses. I can write like 10 paragraphs of why Wenger is underrated and make excuses especially injury wise about why we never won the league in his final 10+ years too, oh and tons of excuses about why we never won the CL especially being robbed by cheat refs against Barca. But he did still win silverware, more than I can say about that bottler Klopp. Anyways welcome to OA officially. I’m sure im ur favorite poster 🖒🖒 :grin: :grin:


#2351

I really wish you’d joined OA much sooner now :joy: So good to have another Rozza fan on here now. You’ve summed up perfectly why he’s my favourite Arsenal player since our move to the Emirates. I miss his play and style so much. We just don’t really have anyone at the club who is that direct with our passes anymore and our play suffers horribly these days.

Anyways, I’ll point you to this thread, if you want to continue further on the Little Mozart :slight_smile:

BTW, don’t get suckered into @Arsenal4thetreble games. He likes to troll. You could say he’s a bit of a disaster :poldi:


#2352

Yeah it’s true that the Liverpool board and his backroom staff are largely responsible for their success in transfers, but Klopp also plays a part himself. For example Coutinho wouldn’t have gone for that money had Klopp not propelled him to that level first.

Re Salah Mane Firmino one could say they hit gold, but would they play that brilliantly under a different manager? Or is this Klopp system that makes them play better than the players they actually are? For evidence, look no further than the number of flops from Dortmund that previously played like world beaters under him. Liverpool can sell that front 3 now for a combined 250M and easily buy some quality replacements. Then some people would probably say that Klopp’s buying success when in fact he’s rather building it.


#2353

That’s the thing, I can’t understand why people are oblivious to the job he’s done building this squad and fitting these players together. I think it’s clear that he’s the reason behind their progression to this level. Obviously Mane was a very good player at Southampton but nothing like what he is now, same with Firmino at Hoffenheim, and Salah has found a new level completely to anything he ever showed before he reached Liverpool.

I think Liverpool’s recruitment over the past few years has been incredibly smart because unlike the period where they splashed stupid sums on players like Andy Carroll and Charlie Adam with no strategy at all, he’s bought these players specifically because he could fit them to his style and it’s worked absolute wonders.

Not to always go back to Wenger, but for YEARS he bought players because he liked them individually, and didn’t think about how they fit together at all. Klopp clearly has his philosophy and this front three, along with others were handpicked because he knew they could bring his vision to fruition.


#2354

Yeah it’s both. Klopp also deserves plenty of credit too.