I have to say your approach to shut down conversation here is very notable. Can I ask why you’re afraid or unwilling to present your position?
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With respect I think I’ve clearly expressed my view. I think James O’Brien perfectly summed up the situation with Diane Abbott by essentially saying she is either an idiot or a liar. I have a lot of respect for what she has done, but the comments she made are unacceptable and to turn round afterwards and play the victim is simply equally unacceptable.
Yep. Literally takes about two seconds of thinking to understand the point she was making.
It’s a weird point to make and you’re just setting yourself up for professional victims like riley to cry foul but it’s not an entirely unreasonable point to make.
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This is a perfect summary imo
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Slight defense. I don’t think it’s weird point to make. I think you can make a case it’s a fact black people went (and are) going through a unique experience. But you can make that case for other groups and their experience is equally as worthy. I don’t think she’s the best equipped to approach it as seen by how she worded it poorly.
It’s not all overt either. I mean, let’s use the current Labour PM’s crappy comments about slavery (‘spend a lot of time in the past’). Sure he’ll be begging the Caribbean people for their vote come election time either way.
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I’m surprised by your response. So to be clear on what Abbott actually said and done in 2023 - Abbott said that that Jewish, Irish and Traveller people experience prejudice, but not racism. As a consequence, she was suspended by the Labour Party.
Abbott later apologised for the remarks and was readmitted into the Labour Party so she could stand in the 2024 General Election.
So do you think that Jewish, Irish and Traveller people experience racism?
Do you think that Abbott lied when she issued an apology for her comments?
I couldn’t care less about Abbotts motives in issuing apologies.
Yes, certainly they have and some still do. Have i as an Irishman ever been subject to racism, absolutely not. And nor has basically anyone I know.
As I say, you can see what she is getting at with just a tiny bit of thinking. She’s done it clumsily but shes not being obtuse.
I’ll expand. How and why she done it (responding to an article) is weird. I think that’s maybe something you discuss over the breakfast table but sending a letter to a national newspaper…did she go looking for the trouble that was obviously going to bring?
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Again, I’m surprised by your comments here, and just to be clear, Abbott was the subject of the debate, but you seem to be taking issue with what I’ve said by implying I’ve not thought about the issue.
Taking it back to the issue, Abbott apologised rightly for the comments she made. So to try to double down on them now either makes her a liar, for issuing an apology that she didn’t mean, or stupid for the comments she’s made in the first place.
The unfortunate thing is that Abbott has probably experienced more racism than the majority of MPs, maybe the most. She has done great things in her political career and she is tarnishing all of that but making stupid comments like this. I’m afraid from my perspective, there is no place for such comments, and I think it is disappointing that people are seeking to justify or defend what she said.
Nope. You’re free to think whatever you like.
I didn’t respond to you at all until you responded to me.
Just to be informative, I have absolute confidence that posters here you think are justifying or defending (There’s a universal agreement she said it badly so…) have experienced racism so I would find another angle personally.
In fact, it’s because of that we’re willing to talk about it.
With respect your comment seemed to be directed at me and in a very derogatory way, and to be clear, I will continue to challenge anyone who seeks to defend or justify racist remarks. There is absolutely no place for comments like this.
I didn’t do that.
I was repeating my position previously stated after you directly quoted me.
You can believe that or not but I won’t be spending any more time trying to convince you.
With the greatest respect, that sort of makes it worse. I am really passionate about this issue and am genuinely upset when I see comments which are racist and causes offence. The discussion should not be about what levels of racism are acceptable…it should be that racism is unacceptable in all forms full stop.
I’m really trying with you man, but you’re not even reading what people are saying now.
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Sorry I am not deliberately being argumentative. I really respect you and @shamrockgooner. I just find this a very emotive subject and something I feel strongly about, such that I don’t care about stupid remarks about being called a snowflake. I just want the world to be a better place.
Whose racist remarks do you think you’re challenging?
If you read the thread I was challenging some comments from others seeking to defend Diane Abbott’s actions.
Who defended or justified racist remarks?
Read the thread.