Depends when you saw Seedorf but he’s easily among everyone you listed in your first formation, especially Kroos and Alonso.
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Saw him for Madrid and for Holland when I was younger, but for Holland it was a friendly and he didn’t play the whole match, honestly don’t remember him from that match much cause I was an adolescent and I really just focused all my energy on Bergkamp and Overmars (and Davids cause as a teen he’s really fun) haha.
And nah, Diaby/Alonso/Kroos/Pirlo/Busquets (honestly, some of the performances that have most impressed me live have been Kroos’, if I was going strictly by performances I’ve seen live–ie if it were pick like the best 11 live performances you’ve seen in an XI-- he would probably be in the XI) > Seedorf, and tbh I’d make room for Neymar/Ronaldinho/Özil/Cesc/Riquelme/Robinho (latter was a sight to see when he was on) before I did Seedorf (and that’s without putting in a striker like Suárez, RvP or Villa and moving Messi over to mid). Great player but it’s stiff competition, he wouldn’t make a silver XI tbh.
I’ll only agree with you if it’s going by performances seen, I’m imagining that’s what you’re saying. Otherwise, too many people discredit him what an outstanding midfielder he was.
Seedorf and our national team have never been a good combination. That relationship is kind of notorious in the sense of how good he could be at his clubs and not for the national team. He has 80 or 90 caps but for another nation that would be 110 - 120, without a doubt.
@Gio Seedorf is the most underrated top player of the last 30 years, easily.
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I agree he’s underrated but I dunno, he’s not someone I would even consider for that XI or second XI if I’m being honest, probably some recency bias and the fact that when I saw him for Madrid and Holland I was an adolescent and obsessed with Bergkamp and Overmars and a Madrid hater.
Would you put him above any of Alonso, Pirlo, Modric, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Riquelme, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Neymar, Bergkamp, though? I’m not so sure. And Özil at his peak for Madrid is one of the best 10s if not the best 10 I’ve ever seen, so I’d probably say him too… (would say Kroos too, he’s one of the best CMs I’ve seen play, he’s right there with Pirlo in terms of midfield playmakers who are just playing the game at a different speed than everyone else, because their brains are crazy)
Seedorf is criminally underrated. He’s miles ahead of Modric for starters, that’s one isn’t even close.
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Modric and Kroos are the foundation of 4 (3) CL victories in 5 years. I think people underrate what important players they should go down as historically.
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Seedorf is a 4 time CL winner with 3 different clubs, I think people underrate his all round importance. He was an absolute master and deserves every right of being mentioned in the top 10-15 midfielders in the entire history of the game.
An outrageous player. World class in every imaginable way. So well rounded and a total boss in 3 different leagues for massive clubs.
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Yeah but saying he’s miles ahead of Modric is basically as silly as saying that RvP was twice the player Batistuta is. ie it’s a major exaggeration, because they’re right in the same class, whether we like it or not (I’d love to discount Modric, as a spud and a madridista, but it wouldn’t be very honest).
Modric is a grossly overrated player and him winning the best player award will have to go down as one of the worst decisions in individual award history - surely.
He’s a great midfielder, but I just dont see anything in him that makes him elite all time status. Seedorf on the other hand has that.
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I mean, he shouldn’t have won the best player award, and he’s naturally declining in recent years, but he was absolutely a MAJOR factor and piece behind Madrid’s 4 CLs, so I don’t really see where you’re getting grossly overrated player from. From 13-18 he was absolutely a top class CM and during that time has nothing to envy Seedorf as a CM.
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He won the best player in the world award when he never was and never has been so to me - that makes him grossly overrated.
People speak about him like he’s a legitimate all time great midfielder when I can’t see that he is.
I think he’s a very good midfielder, and he’s been a big part of the Real Madrid European success but I still don’t think he’s ever going to reach the status where you talk about his greatness years after he’s retired.
Edit:
I also saw him named as one of the greatest 25 players in the last 30 or so years and that’s just plain criminal.
Above Alonso, yes
Pirlo just below,
Modric yes,
Busquets,equal or just below
Xavi no,
Iniesta no,
Riquelme yes,
Zidane no,
Ronaldinho different positions but no,
Neymar different positions, too early with neymar to tell,
Bergkamp difficult, Bergkamp is a special one of a kind player, like Totti, Seedorf has probably succeeded in running more games that won his team major trophies but I’d still choose Bergkamp just because of how unique he was though
I’d pick him over Alonso, Modric, Busquets and Riquelme.
Ronaldinho, Neymar and Bergkamp are not really midfielders.
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I feel like maybe you weren’t watching Modric closely at his peak, he and Kroos is the closest we’ve seen Xavi-busquets/ Xavi-Iniesta since them.
Cannavaro shouldn’t have won balón d’or either but that doesn’t mean he’s overrated, it just means he won a balón d’or he shouldn’t have won.
Absolutely can and should be in that discussion you say he shouldn’t be in.
With these I always wonder. Did they made the system great or were they great because of the system?
I hated that Barcelona team, but you couldn’t pull off what they did with players less skilled than these 3. Hate to say it but they’re the best 3 (when put together) of all time. Fantastic system but those 3 are the best for it, and tbh especially Busquets at his peak.
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Except Rijkaard won titles with a similar system and different players. Xavi was injured for most of that double winning season and Iniesta became Iniesta after 2006.
Mind you I do think Guardiola’s Barcelona was better, but still.
Both of them had success outside of Guardiola both for Barça and the national team. Xavi is undoubtedly one of the best cms of all time. (Without a doubt, if I’m choosing a cm for my team, I don’t even have to hesitate between seedorf or Xavi)
There you have your answer I think.
Good systems always make great players even greater and great players are always make good systems great.
Deco was a cracking player.