It’s not as simple as that though. A lot of people in the Middle East genuinely despise the Western world and it’s ideas of morality. It’s not as simple as “the western way is the right way”.
When you go to a lot of North African and Middle Eastern countries you’ll find that they don’t subscribe to ideas of the West on a lot of their social values.
I know the right thing to do is to be a progressive society that supports peoples right to love who they so please and whatnot but that’s not an attitude that considerable portions of the MENA subscribe to. And they won’t ever really be subscribers of ideas they deem to be “western”.
In other worlds they don’t hold the West as any type of morally superior nation. And a lot of them are happy with the way they live their life.
That’s not to say they’re happy with the rulers They’re just not keen to allow certain western values to creep into their everyday lives. So when people from western countries arrive in these countries and start protesting with their way of life it’s not something a lot of people want to get on board with.
If they don’t like the way westerners live to their own moral standards maybe they shouldn’t have decided to host what is essentially a civilised western sporting tournament which is inclusive no matter what your gender religion or sexuality is
I don’t think anyone really disagrees that the WC shouldn’t be hosted there. It was all about money from day 1 and the awarding was clearly not part of a fair process.
Not sure why Qatar thought it was a good idea themselves tbh.
How do you view it as ignorant, it’s a international tournament like the Olympics too, and these tournaments are inclusive of all kinds of people, obviously the qataris aren’t inclusive are they?" So yes these type of tournaments should only belong to a civilised society
The implication that civility is measured purely by LGBT inclusion in their wider society, that the ignorant part.
I don’t think the WC should have gone to Qatar, or Russia for various reasons but if you live in the west you have no real moral standing or superiority over places like Qatar tbh, it probably best not to go down that road at all because you can find valid reasons not to host a world cup other than a couple of west European nations
It’s cultural imperialism to impose your moral standards on other people/nations or make participation in international sports conditional on a nation’s level of conformity to Western ideals on “inclusion”
Again it’s not about imposing superiority or your own values.
It’s a human right issue. Common decency to choose your sexual orientation and partner you share your life with.
All past world cups and all past Olympic games have been based in countries seen as living life in a western society, now as Qatar doesn’t agree with this and want to host an international tournament the West has every right to question their morals, if the Qatar government don’t like it they have no right having a tournament.
But since most of society has no morals anyway they’ll still turn up for this tournament, the buck stops with fifa anyway
As for the other bit - common decency and human rights aren’t the same but still, it’s not anyone on this forum you really need to convince. I would wager we’re all in favour of expression (which is an actual human right under the UN) but, I also think any country should be allowed to govern by it’s common beliefs, which are also permitted by the same human rights law.
Now, if enough Qatari’s alter their beliefs and want to stand-up on it then all for it. We shouldn’t be telling them how to think.
Well we know that FIFA and Qatar will put on a show to meet the loose principles that FIFA have in place (but don’t give a shit about in reality). FIFA should get as much flack as anyone.
FIFA have tied themselves in a knot with this since they awarded it to the highest bidder. Whether it should be held there or not based on their laws is not the issue, if FIFA believes in it’s principles set out then it would never have awarded it. As the owner of the tournament I’d have no complaints if they said Qatar cannot host because they don’t agree with our (FIFA’s) principles on inclusivity, although kind of ironic.
But again, they don’t actually give a shit, so here we are.
It’s ignorant to measure civility by whether it’s acceptable for a country to execute people for being gay?
Or is it ignorant to measure civility by whether it’s acceptable to jail a woman for having a child outside of marriage?
Or is it ignorant to measure civility by whether it’s acceptable to pass laws granting the government authority to punish content that may “harm” the country?
It’s not ignorant to call out bad acts when they’re happening in plain sight. And it’s not some sort of cultural imperialism to say “hey if I’m bisexual and go to Qatar, am I safe there?” Now you might argue that I don’t need to go. But then why does Qatar get rewarded with a tremendous soft power win by hosting the world cup? No host country is going to be perfect, but even if you disregard the rampant corruption that secured the bid, there should not be a tournament in Qatar based purely on human rights abuses.
All this does is shine a light on how diabolical FIFA decision to award Qatar the WC was.
Inclusion is supposed to be an important part of the FIFA agenda so when you reward countries who’s MO is the opposite of inclusion then it just exposes what a truly shit body they are.
I haven’t suggested this at all ffs and I haven’t said westerner can’t have opinions of other counties laws or culture.
I disagree with non citizens protesting in foreign countries based on their own morals, that it. The reverse would not be acceptable to me if people from the middle east came to the UK protesting we should be more like them during international events.
I don’t think I’ve ever commented positively about Fifa as an entity or Qatar hosting the world cup
