I think that’s a crazy example and a case of false equivalence.
You can’t compare some wannabe Jihadi from Bradford going to Syria to fight for ISIS to ex-UK military guys going to fight for a democracy whom we’ve been allies with for centuries against a country we’ve been at odds with for centuries and who try to threaten and destabilise western democracies at every turn and have carried out attacks on British citizens on British soil several times.
And even if you’re example of Abdul Ahmed had gone to fight for the Syrian Army, that’s not much better either as then he’d be fighting for a dictatorial tyrant whose army committed plenty of atrocities themselves against the Kurds and Syrian rebels. So also not comparable.
Don’t even get me started on Shemima Begum as an example lol
I’d say what these guys are doing is much more similar to the International Brigades that went to help oppose Nazi backed Franco fascists in the Spanish civil war.
I think if this was Armenia vs Azerbaijan I’d be more inclined to agree, but the geopolitical importance of this situation is much bigger and a Russian invasion of Ukraine is a big threat to the stability of Western Europe. If we don’t seriously resist Russia in this and come down hard on them, China will annex Taiwan within the year (not good for the West because then China will country 90% of the worlds chip making capabilities).
Much bigger importance on the global stage and as an important member of the EU and NATO, Germany’s stance on this is a really bad look for us as a united front trying to resist Russian expansionism.
Looks like you’ve done your homework lol, but the point of view I’m seeing it from if for instance the UK goes to war with Russia there’s only going to be one winner. You think the economics of a war takes precedent over human lives, obviously not but this is what will happen.
I’m safe where I live, free from famine, invasion, the walking dead etc, but I do worry about my fellow OA’ers .
Seriously though a lot of the world does actually think that the US and the UK need to keep out of things, bearing in mind the UK is seen as a bit of a laughing stock to outsiders
The economic fallout from giving too much ground to China and Russia will also have consequences on peoples lives and cause death too.
For example, how many people could potentially freeze to death in Germany because they’ve handed over control of their energy to a bad actor?
If Russia, who are allies with China, take control of Ukraine, then China would have a straight shot into mainland Europe which they could flood with troops and overwhelm us with very easily if they ever decide to project their expansionist tendencies on Europe. Russia would fucking love to assist in that.
Obviously that’s not super likely but it’s a potential threat that needs to be considered.
If we let Ukraine fall to Russia without a proper fight, then they’ll feel empowered to take the Baltics and Poland as well. Why stop there? Sweden and Finland aren’t NATO members, like Ukraine, and if we show that we won’t fight for non-NATO allies then Russia might start to feel very emboldened indeed.
For decades, we’ve tried to avoid confrontation by just always appeasing Russia and they’ve taken advantage of our weakness and complacency in Georgia and Crimea and they’re just going to keep going until they rebuild the USSR. China are watching and seeing the same weakness that Putin is exploiting now.
Now, when it comes to places like Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq etc. then I agree with you. I wouldn’t want to spill any western blood fighting for these countries either where it just is senseless bloodletting and power projection.
I hope we take a very strong stance on this. The West needs to make it clear that we vehemently oppose the illegal occupation of other nations and that this is not acceptable behaviour. I think we are well placed to serve as a moral authority on this topic.
So what happens to the thousands of Chinese and Russian businesses all over Europe not to mention the properties they own. Do you really think the Chinese and Russians would still invade.
This is the consequence of European nations selling out to the Chinese and Russians.
At least Roman Abromivich had the foresight to become a Portuguese citizen!
I think that the life of its citizens means very little to the Russian and Chinese governing elite lol
Agreed though, I’m fuming about the selling out of the UK, US and Europe assets to the Russians and Chinese. We’ve been far too soft for far too long and now it’s coming back to bite us.
Probably true for some but there are a lot of big types in Europe, in Portugal, France and Italy for instance who I’m sure have some sort of influence with their home government’s.
Like I mentioned before I’m taking a simplistic viewpoint, but say the US and the UK go to war with Russia, what happens to the Russians and Chinese in these countries, would they be interred?, would there be rampaging mobs looting and smashing Chinese and Russian homes and businesses? Because this is what will happen at home during a war as well.
China don’t have an expansionist policy. They are more than happy getting rich off of the West’s consumerism, and influencing people through money rather than violence.
If they did they would have retaken Taiwan years ago.
Look at their Belt and Road policy, establishing military bases in Africa, aggressively loaning out funds to impoverished nations on terms they know they can’t meet so they can repossess the collateral, the expansion into the South Sea and infringing on sovereign nations waters to establish naval dominance etc.
They’re very expansionist, it’s just been limited to SEA and Africa so far.
Taiwan will fall within the next couple of years if we aren’t careful.
Yep and they build nuclear power plants around the world and actually bid/almost won on A few nuclear projects in the UK until security concerns made the government pull out.
Yeah I guess the main point is the homegrown attack point
However what would you say to those who state that the Ukrainian groups these guys are heading over to join have a Nazi element, or oppress ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine?
Or about those that say they went to Syria to fight against a brutal dictator such as Assad?
Interesting answer though, learned a lot actually thanks.