So when did Anelka start being fun?
Is this serious? You think he was seriously doing some sort of Nazi salute??
The legend, the future
Yup, that gesture has a pretty sordid history. Look it up. He can play it off like it was a tribute to a friend but I don’t buy that for a second.
Yeah, he is Real-bound for sure
If Monaco can guarantee that they will keep the team this summer/bolster if need be then he has no reason to leave. He’s playing for a club that are fighting on all fronts in their respective competitions, playing great football amongst a talented group of players. They’ll be repeating the cycle again next season for sure (If they keep everyone) so it’s a ride worth staying on for the time being.
Mbappe is talented enough that he could stay for a few more seasons and still get to play for numerous big clubs throughout his twenties.
I saw it when it happened and i had no clue what it was. Honestly I really doubt he knew it had that connotation.
Why are you eager to defend him? I mean, what makes you so doubtful that he knew what it’s connotations were?
If Mbappe is going to Real Madrid then possibly Benzema, Bale, or even Ronaldo, might be off.
I fully expect the usual, “Benzema to Arsenal,” links in the next transfer window.
Because it makes absolutely no sense for him to do it. First off I don’t know of many black nazis. Secondly, even if he was a nazi or was anti-Semitic, what sense does it make for him to broadcast that all over the world and possibly threaten his career because of it. Thirdly as I said before, I’ve never even seem that gesture and I’m willing to wager most people my age/generation probably have never seen it either. Maybe it was meant to be a nazi salute, I don’t know, however there are a lot of reasons to be doubtful of it, I’m not going to assume the worst.
I’m not suggesting you assume the worst, I’m suggesting that maybe you shouldn’t be assuming the best when you’ve got nothing but spurious and speculative reasons to do so. I’m suggesting you perhaps keep an open mind. It sounds like you know nothing about the gesture or how it was popularised and by whom, so keeping an open mind is probably the best course of action.
How dare you apply sensible reasoning when faced with an unfamiliar sutuation. Shame on you!
Anelka’s comedian mate popularised the gesture. He says it’s an anti-zionist/anti-establishment gesture but unless you’re trying to be controversial or offensive you don’t adapt the Nazi salute which is obviously incredibly offensive to Jewish people in order to make a point about anti-zionism, when everyone knows that anti-semitism and anti-zionism are two issues that are closely related and often conflated. If you decide to adapt the Nazi salute to make a point about anti-zionism I’m certainly willing to believe that darker sentiments may lie beneath the surface, that perhaps a dislike of Jewish people may also be informing the choice of salute. I don’t know enough either way to leap to a conclusion, but it’s certainly a possibility.
It comes down to whether you’ll jut take someone at their word, or whether you think there’s a possibility that they’re using something more respectable to cloak more offensive and discriminatory sentiments. I could just take it at face value when people like the EDL say that they are only against radical Islam and not Islam in general or Muslims, or I can retain a healthy skepticism and entertain the notion that the word radical is added in front to add an air of respectability and attract the support of people who would object to the idea that Islam itself and Muslims are something we should stridently oppose.
That is the point. I’m not making assumptions either way because I don’t know enough about it. My suggestion is that if you profess to know nothing about a topic, maybe you shouldn’t be too eager to say someone has done nothing wrong, or that their intentions were pure.
Personally I wouldn’t dream of basically suggesting that a member of a racial/ethnic/or religious group was probably wrong to be offended by something when I admit myself that I know fuck all about it. I’d educate myself first before I tried to go down that route.
“I don’t now of many black nazis” is just totally nonsensical reasoning. No one is saying he is literally a member of the NSDAP, but being black doesn’t preclude him from being expressing or holding anti-semitic views. Where I grew up there was a lot of casual anti-semitism thrown around, and yeah, some of it was by black people.
Anyway I’ve got stuff to be getting on with today. I’m organising a march against zionism, I’ve got to order everyone’s brown shirts and arm bands if I want them to arrive in time. I sure hope that it isn’t misconstrued as anti-semitic march though.
Yeah, because Real Madrid have never bought a player they don’t really need have they?
I’m not convinced it’s a ‘reverse nazi salute’ at all. Firstly the name translates to ‘up your arse’. The French comedian Dieudonne invented it and used it for a variety of anti establishment f’uck yous’. That included using the Quenelle as a gesture towards anti-zionism and anti-Israeli human rights abuses but it wasn’t solely for Israeli criticism at all. He also went further and said some anti-semitic comments that went too far. Although without reading in depth about his comments I don’t fully trust the media not to spin these taking them out of context as they have done with Labour under Corbyn.
Also I don’t get the ‘adapting nazi salute’, it doesn’t look anything like it.
I’m sure for many the bigger issue is the constant massacres of Palestinians, the continued sanctions against the Palestinian people and the constant civil rights abuses. Unfortunately some will take it too far when ‘taking sides’ on the issue which Dieudonne is probably guilty of. The people who claim ‘any criticism of Israeli is anti semitic’ are also as bad if not worse however and there are plenty of them.
Possibly, but around 100m for a luxury player they don’t need is rather extravagant.
Especially for a club that haven’t won La Liga for so long and have to watch their rivals win it almost every season.
Although it is possible they will keep Ronaldo and Bale but I think Benzema could be the player to help pay for the Mbappe transfer.
A bit like when we bought Ozil so they could buy Bale.
Extended fingers, flattened palm and a fully straightened arm. To say it doesn’t look anything like it seems to be willful blindness. From certain angles it doesn’t even look like the angle of the arm is different
Nope, no similarities whatsoever!
I completely agree with you that Palestinians being massacred is a bigger deal than this but there is space for more than one discussion to be had. Feels like you’re somewhat trying to shut down this conversation by saying, “yeah but what Israelis are doing to Palestinians is a bigger deal”.
I do also agree with you that people do pull out the “any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic” argument and it’s utter fucking nonsense. But if you want to make nuanced arguments about zionism without being called an anti semite it’s best not to go round doing a gesture that bears a clear resemblance to the Nazi salute.
You even admit yourself that he has taken it too far and made anti-semitic comments, so I’m not sure where this discussion goes from there…
So yeah Mbappe is a good player.
He should stay at Monaco should they want to keep him. He’s still an infant and could do with another season or two in comfortable surroundings.