Thanks for that.
Youâre the one mentioning my name you boring little man.
I wasnât denying whether or not plea bargains exist. Itâs whether or not legal representatives encourage minorities to plead guilty because the system will find them guilty anyway that I questioned.
Very convenient time for him to duck out (again) isnât it?
I showed concern for you getting upset and it seems youâve got upset again. Call me little if it makes you feel big though.
Duck out, by having a direct convo with you? umâŚ
Where did you see this study that shows minorityâs are more likely to plead not guilty?
Thurther more just respond to this postâŚ
Where did you see these studies? I highly doubt thatâs true but if it is maybe itâs because they actually were not guilty but were arrested and charged anyway?
Why did you bring up the issue of people pleading guilty in relation to minorityâs being convicted at a higher rate then white people for the exact same crimes? (Something that definately has been shown in lots and lots of very credible studies)
Lol the reason your study gives for them not pleading guilty is the exact thing you say dosent exist
Why did ou bring this up in relation to conviction rates anyway?
Do you want me to find you a study (I could probably find you thousands). That shows that minorityâs are convicted at a higher rate than white people for the exact same crimes??
What? What do I say doesnât exist?
Kaner, context and details are everything to an investigation. Top line data alone isnt enough to form an opinion on anything, at all.
A factor in longer sentencing is the not guilty plea, which is more prominent among minorities which is attributed to distrust in the system, sure.
But your statement was that people were told to plead guilty, which I simply highlighted was false.
Now hand over the keys to my new house
It says they donât trust the court system because they believe that the court system treats minorityâs unfairly, something that is supported by lots of data and studies like this one, you could probably find one on that exact site
M[quote=âOliver, post:525, topic:187â]
A factor in longer sentencing is the not guilty plea,
[/quote]
Nobodyâs talking about longer sentences other than you were talking about conviction rates
Every single case will involve a lawyer telling his client if he think she they should plead guilty, everyone thatâs pleads guilty has been told to plead guilty by their lawyer unless they are representing them selves in court, And you say I donât understand the legal system lol
Also how does the fact that apparently a higher proportion of minorityâs refuse to plead guilty prove that lawers donât advise minorityâs to plead guilty in a case where they possibly wouldnât be advise a white person to plead guilty because thatâs lawyer thinks the white person stands a better chance of being found not guilty if he pleaded not guilty?
erm, you and I were discussing it yesterday.
^^
You say things like âFACT ethnic minorities get longer sentences, therefore the world and his mum is racistâ but that in and of itself isnât an analysis. You havenât made any effort to understand why, which is what Iâm trying to do.
I think youâll find if you look at the data that that statement is correct, Are you trying to say that the sole reason for that is because some minorityâs refuse to plead guilty?
I didnât say longer sentences I said harsher, someone being found guilty is harsher than someone being found not guilty, thatâs what I ment although I could have worded it better I guess
Can I have an explanation on harsher?
Because people that plead guilty typically get shorter sentences than those that get convicted after pleading not guilty.
and yeah, being found guilty is harsher than being found not guilty, great detective work there.
Furthermore, Iâve been quite clear that it this is a big factor to consider and not the sole reason, donât create another straw man.
I donât think itâs a very big factor at all to be honest?
Does your study say What % of minorityâs refuse to plead guilty when advised to do so? It would have to be a very high percentage for that to have much bearing at all wouldnât it?
Interim findings by the Lammy inquiry last year found that male BAME defendants are 52% more likely to plead not guilty in crown courts than white defendants in similar cases.
How many do not how many are more likely
So I copy and pasted this post into google and this came up
If youâve got a minute can someone other than Oliver read this and explain how it supports his stance and not mine?