Knew this was coming.
John O’Shea being better than Fabregas comes to my mind.
I’m not even saying that Kante isn’t better than Coquelin, but come on now, that’s such poor logic.
Okazaki has a premier league winners medal, so I guess that makes him better than Mesut Özil. Phil Neville has several premier league titles to his name, so he must have been better than anyone in our squad.
Sakho was being regularly picked for France ahead of Koscielny for some time, I guess that makes him indisputably better.
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Ozil will probably never get a Premier League medal (unless he goes to City hehehe) but we are not going to use that against him, are we?
Coquelin better than Kante
Ramsey better than Pogba (say what you will about his early season form but he’s barely had a chance to adapt after 4 years in Italy)
Holding as good as Stones
Iwobi one of the best talents in world football
Giroud as good as Higuain
Some of the things I read on this forum are frankly outrageous.
Kante hasn’t been a mixed bag at Chelsea. He’s been absolutely fantastic and has been instrumental in their success since changing a 3-4-3 formation. Just like he was instrumental in Leicester winning the title last season.
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You are equally guilty of downplaying Arsenal players.
I bet if Coquelin was in Chelsea and Kante here.
You would be like ‘Coquelin is definitely better than Kante’.
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Would like to point out that Golden Boy Award shortlist had his name included.
So One of the best, he is.
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Niether Sanchez or Ozil are in the top 30 players in the world according to shortlists.
Yeah I just saw -_-
These awards are mostly who got trophies.
But those excluded doesn’t mean they don’t have talent.
I am not guilty of downplaying Arsenal players. I’m just a bit more realistic about the ability of some of our players. If Coquelin played for Chelsea and Kante played for Arsenal, I’d love Kante and tell you he was the best in the league at doing what he does.
In the same way I happen to be a firm believer that Ozil is the best number 10 in the league and that Sanchez as a CF has potential to be Suarez #2 if we do it the right way.
It’s the same way I believe that Monreal is the best LB in the league (despite shaky early season form) and that I’ll happily admit Mustafi has been a hell of a lot better than I ever gave him credit for.
I don’t underrate our players. I just don’t go to extreme lengths like some of you people do. Coquelin is not better than Kante. Ramsey is not better than Pogba. Giroud isn’t better than Higuain.
The summer just gone the entire forum was clamouring for an upgrade on Coquelin and we allegedly got that in Xhaka (a more rounded player) and because Coquelin has produced some good early season performances he’s suddenly better than arguably the best midfielder in the league last season who has managed to carry that form over to another team and prove himself to be equally as important in his new team.
In the same way Iwobi’s inclusion doesn’t mean he’s one of the best talents in football. These lists are entirely subjective and I can name a host of players who have made these lists in the last few years who didn’t deserve to be there.
Fine Fine, you won me over. You don’t have to butter me more, I forgive you.
I don’t see it as poor logic when the comparision was directed at Kante and Coquelin alone, who have similar playing style, similar age, similar exposure, no previous presence in the senior NT squad and they would have been asked to play the same role tactically by Deschamps. In this context it’s perfectly valid, I rejected all other examples because to apply it generally is stupid…
Coquelin has been looked at for inclusion into the NT before we even knew who Kante was, he was deemed too limited by media and FFF coaching staff. Coquelin actually had the advantage of being involved with the french youth team since U17 and came to prominence before Kante. National team inclusion is a valid measure of ability
The mention of his premier league medal is a reference to his stats and performances during that 15/16 season in a position that is similar to Coq’s. He boost better stats than 14/15 and 15/16 Coq. The medal is the culmination of his performances that were instrumental to that side.
Any suggestion of Coq being close to Kante is silly. Kante is a more dynamic and mobile footballer
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Which is not taking into the consideration that Coquelin was injured for 3 months & had lost his momentum & sharpness that he displays now or before his injury.
Ofcourse Kante boosts better stats than 14/15 & 15/16 Coq because Coq missed first half of 14/15 & 3 months in 15/16.
Winning a title is a team effort. That is a silly way to justify who is a better player. As Silly as Ronaldo claiming to be better than Messi because he won Euros.
With regards to National team, I cannot consider that as a good barometer considering for ages Sakho was rated higher than Koscielny & Sagna always remained second to Debuchy.
Plus i never felt like Coquelin was ever rated by Deschamp as even after his amazing 2015, he never received a single callup from France.
Even now when he has began his season so strong, he is not considered.
Coming down to Individual abilities, Coquelin has more tackles, more interception, & his forward passing is underrated.
Only area where i find Kante to be leading is stamina.
So it is definitely not a definite conclusion that Kante is better than Coquelin.
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Elaborating more on this.
Consider an example in Stefan Kießling
He scored 27 goals in 12/13 & 19goals in 13/14 yet had not been called up by Germany since 2010; despite Germany only having Gomez & Klose as CF options.
Some coach just don’t prefer a certain player.
I feel Coquelin suffers the same.
Heck even Cabaye & Morgan Schneiderlin who had such a poor season last term got called up for Euros.
I find it a little harsh that you criticise opinions on this forum yet in the same breath mention that Kante is ‘definitely’ better than Coquelin, when neither is definitely better than the other.
Kante’s performances against Arsenal (especially), Liverpool, Swansea, Watford and West Ham would actually suggest that he absolutely isn’t superior.
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And Fucking Gignac got selected by Deschamp. Are we seriously judging players by who Deschamp selects?
I think saying they’re miles apart is silly. They excel at slightly different things but it is not as much between them as some would have it I think.
If Giroud had scored 10 more goals on the plethora of chances he had and we’d won the league last year there’s a good chance Coq would’ve been first choice for the NT and he’d get all the attention. Even though he had done nothing different lol
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Flamini and Kante are miles apart. Coquelin and Kante are not.
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The fact we are even comparing Coq to Kante after what he done last seasons is a testament to how far the young lad has developed as a player.
He’ll never be my favorite player but he certainly is useful. I want to see him be a game changer when we go away to a tough ground the way Kante was able to.
@sevchenko it was said that there is nothing that proves which player is better in the definite sense, you responded by saying that his league medal proved he was better. That is poor logic, because a league medal is achieved by a team, not solely an individual. Therefore a player possessing one of these medals is not conclusive evidence of him being better than a player who plays for a team who haven’t won a league title.
As I said, I’m not even saying hat Coquelin is better than Kanté, because I don’t think he is. You have made compelling points that I agree with, but that specific post wasn’t one of them.
Aren’t Kante and Coquelin very different players?
Kante, to me, is a box-to-box midfielder who is constantly running up and down the pitch providing support where needed. Granted he makes a lot of tackles and interceptions but I think there’s more to his game than that.
Coquelin, on the other hand, is an all out DM. He hangs around in the middle, harassing and harrying and making big tackles and interceptions, breaking up the opponents play but rarely straying away from that area.
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