Francis Coquelin

Superb performance such a dude

Better than Xhaka right now?

Wenger surely thinks so :frowning: . It pains me to say it as Iā€™ve always been a backer of his but since Xhakaā€™s arrival Iā€™m starting to hate him (Coq).

Why though?

We won 6-0 and he had a great performance, providing a lovely assist for Ozilā€™s first

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Heā€™s cure rather than prevention, heā€™s a player that looks good to lots because heā€™s throwing himself around a lot and because weā€™re in the situation in the first place of being reactive partly due to his lack of control in midfield (though lack of control in midfield is more down to the manager/structural problems than just Coq, hence why itā€™s fair to worry if Wenger can even get the best out of Xhaka/use him correctly). Xhakaā€™s just a better player, but Wenger doesnā€™t seem to know how to use him so far, and thus Wenger needs Coquelinā€™s ā€œcureā€ (which is understandable, given Wengerā€™s lack of ability to set the team up to control the game he pretty much does need to pick Coquelin over Xhaka).

Like I said, I rate him, and I think heā€™s a good player (better than Casemiro for me, and I always said thereā€™s little in it between him and Kante, that is within his limitations/the type of player that he is, heā€™s very good), just not one who should be first choice in a team like ours, as he is and I think will continue to be, over a player like Xhaka.

Btw, Santi had the assist for Mesutā€™s first?

You can label the cure rather than prevention line at the likes of Makalele and Gilberto.

Xhaka and Cazorla in the middle wonā€™t work either not because of tactics, unless you want to bench Ozil and play a 3 man midfield but because both are too slow and donā€™t cover enough ground. Right now Xhaka is competing with a genius in Santi rather than Coquelin imo

Xhaka when he does start ideally needs to be with a Coquelin, Ramsey or Elneny whoā€™ll do the running to improve our pressing/ball winning and to cover for him when pace fails him.

Itā€™s a good problem to have because Santi and Coquelin will get injured at some stage

At this point Xhaka is slightly overrated as expected with new signings and Coquelin is being underrated.

I say this as someone whose always been critical of Coquelin.

There is 0 rush to fit Xhaka into the first 11 as soon as possible. Coquelin is perfect for maintaining the status quo and helping us go on long winning streaks as weā€™ve done in the last with him at the base and are doing now.

As Xhaka acclimatises and adapts his game more to us and the PL there will be a period over the course of the long season where he might surpass Coquelin as a better all round fit consistently.

Our form will drop 100% and Xhaka is stylistically so different to Coquelin that he could be used as a mini boost to our performances.

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What Bullshit!
It seems you are creating a fictitious scenario in your mind to justify your pursuit of having Xhaka ahead of Coquelin.
I know as a purist, you would like us to have Alonso, Kroos kind of players in Coquelinā€™s place & you see Xhaka as someone who can emulate that. But stop trying to downplay Coquelin & overrate Xhaka.

Coquelin has been more in action higher up the pitch rather than in a reactive role.
He is dispossessing the opponents near to their own box.
The way you make it sound is like every tackle of his is a desperate attempt to stop a goal scoring chance, rather than being a proactive approach to win the ball as soon as possible.

Xhaka being ineffective & Coquelin having a stormer of a season is not down to mismanagement as you so desperately trying to portray.

You are just too proud to admit how wrong you were when you were throwing a fit around because Coquelin was given starts ahead of Xhaka.
Now that Wengerā€™s decision is justified, it is somehow ā€œitā€™s a cure, rather than preventionā€ bullshit.

Would like to know how such tackles are reactive?
https://cdn-e1.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/rn1u.mp4?token=1478177110_1b6cdb949a0468c252ca61648ea1a6a32100f6b5

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I feel like thereā€™s a correlation between our success and Coquelinā€™s form.

Ever since Flamini left all those years ago we had a midfield of really technical, ā€œdelicateā€ midfielders like Fabregas, Arteta, Wilshere, Cazorla etc. kind of what Cuellar is talking about wanting now and for all those years we would continuously get overrun and dominated by other teams in midfield.

Coquelin is tenacious and a fantastic tackler who is constantly harassing the opponents and winning the ball back for us in midfield which allows us to start attacks quickly and immediately. Heā€™s exactly what weā€™ve been crying out for for almost 10 years and heā€™s doing a damn good job of it.

His passing isnā€™t nearly as bad as people want to make it out either, he pulled off some very nice long and short range passes yesterday and does so regularly. I feel so much safer with him in midfield because heā€™s the only player in our team who can do what he does because heā€™s also more athletic than Xhaka.

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Xhaka is a good back up to Coq, also offers something completely different.

I can see Xhaka being more useful in European games where the pace maybe slightly slower and the game more tactical.

I feel Coquelin is incredibly suited for the Premier League. Heā€™s aggressive, alert and always providing immediate cover for the back four.

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The announcer last night put it so perfectly when he stated, immediately after a tackle by Coq, ā€œCoquelin doesnā€™t give you a second to rest in possession.ā€ Something Iā€™ve not heard a pundit say about an Arsenal midfielder since Iā€™ve been watching football.

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Coq understands our game and the specific role he is supposed to have in our 4-2-3-1. But Xhaka just arrived, give him time to adapt and adjust and become comfortable with how it works here. He can be incredible, we can be lucky to have both options as well as Elneny at the side of Santi. Add that we can actually play 4-3-3 and have 3 bosses in the midfield if we feel like it because we have the squad for it now.

This is the difference between the defensive midfielders we used to have, when we were successful, and the ones we have had in recent seasons, before Coquelin, Elneny and Xhaka.

Vieira and Petit used to pressure the opposition constantly, and like you say, that is what Coquelin is doing in this team.

Itā€™s a shame it took so long for Wenger to realise that a midfield without these sort of players is less effective.
Having a midfield of light weight, skilful players like Arteta, playing a possession based game, might look pretty, but it also needs the more physical players for it to be successful.

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So you donā€™t like Coquelin? Letā€™s say that when you face a dynamic team like Ludogorets yesterday Le Coq is better.

I canā€™t wait until everyone starts thinking Theo Walcott is world class and AC suddenly decides to despise him.

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Makelele yes, but then Iā€™m not sure Makelele is that much better than Coquelin in a modern day setting. Gilberto had a bit more tempo to his game than Coquelin does, but yeah, I donā€™t think Coquelin is too far off Gilbertoā€™s level either.

I just donā€™t agree. One, Xhaka may be slow but heā€™s not as unathletic as people are making out, he was very good and very spry winning the ball the other day. Two, Xhaka and Cazorla may be inappropriate for certain high tempo matches but for games at home against the likes of Ludogorets itā€™s totally viable. People said Kroos-Modric wouldnā€™t cover enough ground but Madrid were at their best in recent memory when that was the regular midfield under Ancelotti during that period.

I hope youā€™re right but I have my doubts, Iā€™m worried Wenger just isnā€™t up to it to put together an approach that is good enough in terms of control without the crutch of a player like Coquelin. I wouldnā€™t agree either that thereā€™s no rush, ideally youā€™d want Xhaka fully acclimatised and assimilated into the team for when the big fixtures comeā€¦games like this are absolutely ideal for that (Xhaka-Cazorla is absolutely a viable midfield at home against Ludogorets or other low opposition), yet Wenger doesnā€™t use him. Finally, I didnā€™t see a drop of our play against Swansea the other day, in fact that was one of our better performances in recent memory for me, we had full control of the match and were always dangerous, a couple of random mistakes/switching off made it closer than it shouldā€™ve been.

@Trion when was I throwing a fit about Coquelin ahead of Xhaka? chill out, I rate Coquelin, itā€™s more a criticism of Wenger than Coquelin, though I guess that probably registered on some level with you or else you wouldnā€™t be so up in arms.

@Luca_from_Italy I would argue Ludogorets looked a dynamic team because we allowed them to, ie, our performance was poor and our set-up/midfield largely incoherent.

@Castiel/my personal troll just because you donā€™t appreciate any nuance in a stance doesnā€™t mean thereā€™s any contradictions going on. :wink: :kissing_heart:

Haha subtle nuance in stance yeh thatā€™s it. Itā€™s getting to the point Iā€™m genuinely convinced there are two of you and youā€™re playing out some sort of Prestige long game.

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@AbouCuellar, donā€™t think so. I think we were just too complacent.

Eh, thatā€™s a pretty weak psychological justification for such a poor first half performance.

I give you we were too attacking-minded. In fact Wenger admitted it. But thatā€™s more a problem of mentality, like being complacent, that set up.